Date:         Wed, 10 Nov 1999 21:03:25 PST
Reply-To:     Tony Peet <tpvw@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Tony Peet <tpvw@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Fwd: Re: Mich MXT 205s Report
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

********
6 Scuba Divers + Gear + 1400mi in 24 hours@70mph + non-reinforced sidewalls
+ Vanagon = blowout
********


With the caveat that I am NO tire expert, this SOUNDS like the potential
'catastrophic blowout' scenario that the tech guy from Michelin told me
about when non-sidewall reinforced tires are used on the Vanagon.  He had
mentioned that they have inspected more than a few used non-reinforced tires
from Vanagons that show significant sidewall cracking/stress. With the added
loads that John was talking about(below), the weakened sidewalls are
compressed so much that the 'bead' (inside rim of tire that 'grabs'wheel
rim) fails, leading to a blowout.

I also have to add that 6 scuba divers and their gear sounds like it could
be easily close to 1500 pounds or more of weight, and on my '91 Westy syncro
that would take it OVER the recommended GVWR (which, remember, does not JUST
involve tire load capacity, but is also tied to the 'weakest link(s)" in the
suspension system etc).  That drive sounds like it was pushing limits to me.

I'm on a temporary mission to put this reinforced sidewall issue in front of
everyone because I think we owe it to ourselves and to new Vanagon owners to
be alert around any quirky safety issue.  WE are the ones who can keep track
of this stuff -- as most of you know, the tire dealers sure aren't doing it
for us!

Disclaimer:  Sometimes I get a little dramatic.

Tony
'91 Westy Syncro ('teepee')
Pacific Grove, CA

>From: John Koloski <koloski@TOAD.NET>
>Reply-To: John Koloski <koloski@TOAD.NET>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: Mich MXT 205s Report
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:39:49 -0500
>
>The original MXT 205's that came on my new Vanagon were the WORST tires
>that I ever owned on any car I ever drove.
>I would routinely load my Vanagon with 5 other scuba divers and their gear
>and drive non-stop to the Florida Keys at a steady 70 mph for 24 hours/1400
>miles.  Not once but TWICE those damn Michelins exploded in Florida after
>only 12 non-stop 70 mph hours of use. I would also lose all control driving
>in snow ( a few inches, unplowed) with the Michelins AT A SPEED OF 15 MPH.
>I told a guy at a tire store about my problems with the Michelins and he
>suggested Pirrellis (probably mispelled). They were less expensive than the
>Michellins, I could maintain control at 45 mph in snow (I don't drive
>faster than that until they plow the roads), and they NEVER blew up on the
>way to Florida.  They did wear out faster, however because they were made
>out of a softer rubber than the MXT's. The tire stoe that I bought the
>Pirelli's from stopped carrying them so I had to try another tire.  I am
>now on my third set of the cheapest all season radials Pep Boy's sell and I
>LOVE them.  They say "maximum inflation 44 psi, cold" so I don't mind
>putting 40 psi in the rear tires (the MXT's said "maximum 40 psi, cold").
>They are all season tires and work great in the snow, and they never BLOW
>UP on 24 hour non-stop high speed scuba ROAD TRIPS.  They are made from
>soft rubber and wore even faster than the Pirelli's did, but I always got
>cash credit toward a new set when I pointed out the mileage/tread depth to
>the Pep Boy's guy.
>
>PS I'm on my third set of brakes. I got 90K miles from each set of brakes,
>50K from the Michellins, 40K from the Pirrelli's and 30K frm each set of
>Pep Boys tires on my 1990 Vanagon.
>
> > From: Kent Christensen <lkchris@USWEST.NET>
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Mich MXT 205s Report
> > Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 12:04 AM
> >
> > I certainly second Steven's notion that new Michelins are great and
> > that the tires recommended by the manufacturer are the best tires to
> > use and that if Michelins are in the list they're the best ones in my
> > experience.  I should add, however, that new tires are always going to
> > feel better than the old ones just replaced.  Newer rubber, not
> > hardened with age, deeper tread also equals softer, better ride, etc.,
> > etc.  It's the "reinforced" vs not reinforced that likely makes the
> > crosswind difference, however.  I think the only good alternative to
> > "reinforced" is "C" as the door jamb sticker will indicate.  I just
> > think, however, there is a fundamental difference between European
> > tires and American tires, however, with much more compliant sidewalls
> > usually the case with the latter.  Don't see how American tires can
> > ever be right for a Vanagon.  I think most Asian tires (available in
> > USA and relevant to Vanagons) are closer to American than European.

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