Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:49:02 -0700
Reply-To: Tim King <tking_ms@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tim King <tking_ms@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Syncro shifter rattle
Wow, Mark, great post! I can't wait to try it this weekend.
Thanks,
Tim
Seattle WA
rattley 87 Syncro Westy
----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Theune <mtheune@EMORY.EDU>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Syncro shifter rattle
> Hi Tim,
>
> I just rebuilt the entire shifter mechanism on my 85 Vanagon last night so
> maybe I can point you to a couple of places to look for rattling -- if the
> rattling is coming from the front, that is.
>
> First the disclaimer. I am new to this listserv (this is my first post)
> and new to performing my own repairs. I don't even know if the shifter in
> a Syncro is the same as in a Vanagon.
>
> But, with the help of this listserv and its great archives, I was finally
> able on Monday to get my vanagon back on the road -- after three months of
> it sitting in the driveway staring at me and challenging me to figure out
> (on my own this time) what was wrong. Luckily I had alternate transport.
> Researching the great archives and technotes here, and at type2.com, I was
> able to narrow the problem down to the clutch slave cylinder. I fixed it
> in one evening and saved probably $300. Thanks to all here and especially
> Karl Bloss for all the moral support, and Sean Bartnik for his great
how-to
> on this. Maybe with this post I can repay part of the favor.
>
> Anyway, like I said, last night I decided to finally fix my shifter too
> (I'm on a roll now, right?). For about a year it's been ridiculously
> loose, traveling at least two feet in either direction in neutral and
> movable up and down six inches within the shift boot. It was a great
theft
> deterent as no one could get the vanagon into gear -- not even the
> mechanics. I had a few silent laughs at them as they tried to get it into
> their garages to gouge me yet again for some minor repair. They
repeatedly
> admonished me that I had a problem with the shifter (really?) and that
they
> could fix it for $200-300. Each time, I politely demurred. I could drive
> it so I let it slide (literally).
>
> So last night, with my newfound determination, I yanked the entire shifter
> assembly apart, both above and below. Needless to say, I had to replace
> the entire shift assembly that revolves around that plastice ball joint,
> which had totally disintegrated. I found numerous broken pieces of it in
> the spare tire holder.
>
> Luckily, the mechanics had a set of replacement parts that they
reluctantly
> sold to me as if this was some secret technology that they were releasing
> to a suspected foreign agent. At first, I was like a toddler with a new
3D
> puzzle -- totally lost -- but after a few minutes, I was able to get the
> one rubber and the five plastic pieces assembled and attached correctly to
> the shifter. Now my vanagon shifts so well _I_ can't drive it.
>
> Anyway Tim -- please forgive my longwindedness, but this is sooo exciting
> -- I studied the entire connection between the shift lever, the shift rod,
> and the cover box. It's really quite interesting. If I understand it
> correctly, the shift lever and shift rod form an inverted "T" at the
> connection, and when the shift lever is seated properly up top with a good
> ball joint, etc., this "T" interacts down below with the ledges/shelves
> that are welded inside either side of the cover box, one of which has a
> groove. This interaction provides the limits of movement for the shifter
> and the grooved ledge defines the push-down effect for reverse.
>
> Now the ends of this "T" are supposed to be coated with a thin layer of
> plastic to minimize rattling, I guess. (Finally getting to the point...)
> This plastic was okay on mine. The mechanics said that this coating is
> premanufactured and that you need to buy an entirely new shifter rod piece
> to replace it (these ends are on the shifter rod, not the shift lever). I
> kinda doubt that. It seems that I read somewhere in the archives that
> plastic covers could be found to replace this coating. But the mechanics
> also said that you could just wrap the ends of the "T" with some
electrical
> tape for a temporary fix.
>
> I would be careful, given the tight quarters of this interaction, that I
> didn't put too much tape on, because then the "T" might be too fat to work
> smoothly with the ledges/shelves.
>
> Another source of rattling might be "T" connection itself. The shift
lever
> ends with a hollow bolt receiver that is welded perpendicularly (sp?) to
> it. It's about two inches long and fits between the forked ends of the
> shift rod. The bolt goes through everything to make the connection (it's
a
> 13mm head with a 10mm nut and can be inserted from only one side, if that
> matters). Inside each end of the hollow receiver is a plastic cap/washer
> thing that makes the bolt fit more snugly.
>
> It's possible that the connector bolt itself is loose, or that one or both
> of those plastic inserts is busted.
>
> As far as the rubber sleeve that fits around the ball joint, I don't know.
> The new one I got looked exactly like the old one. There was no wear that
> I could see on the old one, as it's a pretty stout piece. If it is worn
on
> the inside, though, it could be allowing the ball joint to sit too low. I
> just don't think this is likely.
>
> I suppose it's also possible that the slide ring on the shifter (up top,
> just above the spring) may have slipped out of place. It is tightened
with
> the recessed screw in its side at the point of the shift lever where there
> is an indentation to receive the screw's point. Or possibly that spring
> there is worn?
>
> In summary, I would say that the most important aspect in the shift
> assembly is the shift lever's proper seating up top under the shift boot.
> If it is sitting too low, it will not interact properly with those ledges
> in the cover box below. It's hard to see inside the cover box while
> everything's assembled, but it's doable. First, look for broken plastic
> pieces in the spare holder when you take the spare out. Then get your
head
> up there or use a mirror and have someone up top going through the gears
> (engine off, of course). Watch the interaction. Then remove the cover
box
> (4 10mm nuts) and inspect the "T" and the ledges. Add a bit of tape on
the
> "T" if the plastic coating is bad as its doesn't cost anything. Make sure
> that the ledges inside the cover box are not bent or broken. Grease them
> while you have it off. Make sure the connector bolt on the "T" is fairly
> tight and that the inserts are not busted. If none of this fixes the
> rattling, look closely at the assembly up top to see if anything looks
off,
> something that would make the shift lever sit too low. The ball joint has
> two pieces, the top and bottom halves form the ball. Maybe the bottom,
> invisible half is busted. The plastic casing for the ball is also two
> pieces -- one for each side. You should be able to tell if somethings
> wrong because the ball will look too low in the casing. It should be
> centered and snug (and greased). Pull up on the shift lever and see what
> happens.
>
> If all else fails, rebuild the assembly like I did. You may even be able
> to find the whole thing already assembled in that oblong sleeve holder
> thing that the ball joint sits in.
>
> Hope this helps. You probably already knew all of this and I'm sure
others
> out there know much more, but I just wanted to impart my observations
while
> they were still fresh in my mind. And I promise to be more concise in my
> future postings.
>
> Marc
> 85 Vanagon
> Atlanta, GA
>
> At 05:15 PM 9/28/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >I'm just _full_ of questions lately...
> >
> >With my 87 syncro westy now running, I'm spending lots of time tracking
down
> >small issues. The most irritating of which is shifter rattle. The linkage
is
> >great -- the vehicle goes in and out of gear like _butter_. However, when
> >it's in gear (4th is the worst), the shifter is able to wobble, float,
> >rattle, klink, bang, and buzz around until I'm ready to gouge my eyes out
> >with all the straws I've stolen from Starbucks. The sound is very
metallic
> >in nature. It almost sounds like the linkage is rubbing against something
as
> >the vehicle vibrate. It's so loose, I can actually gently move the lever
> >almost all the way over to where first should be and keep the van in 4th.
If
> >I grab the linkage under the van, it wobbles with ease. My 83 had much
more
> >tension in it.
> >
> >I've looked at the ball under the shift boot, and it _looks_ fine, but
> >that's about as far as I've got. I'm sure the whole thing is exacerbated
by
> >my drivetrain vibration problems (probably drive shaft, but certainly not
> >helped by the chunky Gislavad snow tires it's wearing), but I'd kind of
like
> >to tackle one thing at time and the shifter rattle seems like the easier
of
> >the problems.
> >
> >Any ideas?
> >
> >Thanks folks.
> >
> >Tim King
> >Seattle, WA
> >87 Syncro Westy
> >
> >
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