Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:58:56 -0800 (PST)
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From: Charles D Earl <cdearl@cats.ucsc.edu>
Subject: Re: RE>Re: FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica!
Kirk,
Thanks for writing back. I'm glad that your experience with this shop=20
has been so good, in fact, I have never heard of such excellent treatment=
=20
by an auto repair shop. Talk about contrasting opinions!
Unfortunatly, what I spoke of really happened. I saw the ad, drove to=20
the shop, told Roger what I was hearing and recieved the "need a new=20
engine" verdict when I returned. The van was new to me, I had never=20
owned a VW before and was not very knowledgable about the internal=20
workings of its engine. I wouldn't be surprised if my ignorance was=20
fairly obvious at the time. Roger said it could be several things=20
including possibly valves, but a valve job alone was not offered as an=20
option. He said that whatever the problem was it was internal and that=20
the engine needed to be pulled and disassembled, and that since it was=20
relatively high milege (115K at the time) it would be better to have it=20
rebuilt or replaced (which, if I really thought the engine needed to be=20
removed, I would agree with).
Obviously no one wants to hear that they need a new engine from anybody,=20
regardless, I needed to think it over and told him this. He called a=20
couple of times to set up an appointment which I kept putting-off. I=20
then had the vehicle checked out by 2 other reputable shops (including my=
=20
current one, Freds), both of whom concurred precisely, that it was a=20
valve lifter which sticks occasionally. They both said that as long as=20
this tapping goes away by the time the engine reaches operating temp it=20
is only a noise if one can learn to live with it. In fact, they both=20
suggested frequent oil changes to loosen up the lifter, advice which I have=
=20
followed and that has=20
resulted in this noise becoming more and more infrequent. I have since=20
further confirmed this analogy in several books and posts on this list=20
and info in web sites. Further, both shops agreed if I really couldn't=20
live with it, or if the sound started to not go away, that a valve job=20
would cure it completely, $5-700. Apparently, this is a frequent problem=
=20
with Vanagons, I would be interested in hearing from other listees who=20
have experienced this syndrome.
Certainly the situation was subjective, I complained of a noise and Roger=
=20
suggested a route which would get rid of it, and he's right, a new engine=
=20
would get rid of the noise. I did not disbelieve him at the time, it was=
=20
only after I did extensive research on the subject that I formed a solid=20
opinion. Who knows, perhaps my engine will totally fail as he predicted,=
=20
it just hasn't happened yet in over 35K since my visit to this shop. =20
Since, I=20
have had major tuneups/inspections every 10K which include checking all=20
systems and a=20
compression check. The van recieves a clean bill of health each time.
Coincidentally, it was very close to 2 years ago that this happened, it=20
is interesting that my experience apparently occurred very close to, or at=
=20
the same time as Roger was selling the shop. I think of the reasons for=20
which one might sell one's livelihood, and money problems comes to mind.
Regardless, to set the record straight, while its true that I had a very=20
bad experience, you say that yours has been more then satisfactory. This=
=20
gives some balance to the situation. Moreover, the shop is now owned and=
=20
run by different people, which probably means that my past experience has=
=20
no bearing on the present situation. Therefore, I would have to say that=
=20
as far as I am concerned, there is no reason why one shouldn't check this=
=20
shop out and form their own opinion. In fact, now that I am informed, I=20
would probably give Gandalf's a second chance if I needed help and was in=
=20
the area. =20
Kirk, thanks for the objective response. Take it easy
Charles--Stardate 012697
On 26 Jan 1997, Kirk van Druten wrote:
> They (the folks at Gandalf's Garage in South San Francisco) are friends, =
but only because of the service and experience I've had with them over the =
years. My intention is not to defend them for any possible wrong doing in =
the past but mention the good experience I've had there.
>=20
> I've been a client for at least 6 years. From my first 79 van to my 88 W=
esty, they've been the only shop to work on my VW's. They've loaned me kno=
wn-working parts (even electrical stuff) and given me endless troubleshooti=
ng advice about places to stick my volt meter and what kind of readings I s=
hould be getting. They regularly schedule time for me on days when they'r=
e not too busy and let ME do most of the work on my 88 Westy in their shop.=
I install my own shocks, work on my brakes (up on the rack is unreal!), f=
lush/fill coolant, etc. I'd be hard pressed to think of a shop anywhere wh=
ere that kind of relationship with their clients goes on.
>=20
> Your account of Roger is surprizingly out of character for him from my pe=
rsonal experience with Gandalf's Garage. For the record, he sold the shop =
to Rodrigo and Gretchen Castelanos about 2 years ago. The service and expe=
rtise has only improved since.
>=20
> I've never heard of anyone with anything but good things to say about Gan=
dalf's, I'm sorry your experience wasn't so grand.
>=20
> Kirk out=20
> --------------------------------------
> Date: 1/25/97 11:32 PM
> To: Kirk van Druten
> From: Charles D Earl
> Kirk,
>=20
> This is not really an answer to your (friends) dilemna, but I had to writ=
e when I saw mention of "Gandalf's" When I lived in SF I was attracted by =
their ad with the picture of the "VW wizard" in the yellow pages. I had be=
en hearing a valve lifter tapping slightly on occasion while warming up my =
Westy, then it would go away and stay away. As I have since been told by s=
everal reputable sources, including seeing posts about this on this list, t=
his is a common problem with Vanagons. It can mean time for a valve job (e=
specially if the sound doesn't go away) but that is a worst case seanario. =
Usually it is just a sound if you can live with it.
> My point? A Gandalf's mechanic (Roger I believe was his name, maybe even=
the owner) told me I needed a new engine or a rebuild, no if, ands or buts=
about it. I doubted this, said I'd think about it and decided to pass. I=
then proceeded to gather the info mentioned above. Roger even called back=
twice to ask when I was going to schedule my much needed engine replacemen=
t. Well, 30k later (which includes 3 road trips of 6k+ apiece, subjecting =
my van to torturous weather, altitude and hill climbing conditions), the sa=
me engine runs perfectly. Sorry Roger, I don't think so. Don't take this =
wrong, I'm way over it (for all I know these may be your friends), but that=
was my singular, what I would call, very negative experience with this sho=
p. As far as I'm concerned, they wanted to charge me $3000. for unneccesary=
work. If my experience with them was supposed to be "magical," then I wou=
ld have to say it was the dark side of the force. I will never give them m=
y business or recommendation.
> As I posted earlier, I recommend Fred's Garage in Redwood City for Bay ar=
ea residents. I hope your friends were rescued. Are they on a surf trip?
>=20
> Good luck,
>=20
> Charles
> '83.5 GL Westy
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Kirk van Druten wrote:
>=20
> > FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica! 97-01-25=
10:=3D
> > 02:57
> > Hey everyone,
> > > My friends Dave and Whitney are in their '88 Westy in Costa Rica! Th=
ey =3D
> > drove it all the way down there from the San Francisco bay area! I jus=
t =3D
> > got the following message from them. I gave a few basic troubleshootin=
g =3D
> > ideas and some experiences I had while troubleshooting my dying ECU =3D
> > computer but thought I would forward his message to the wisdom of the l=
ist.=3D
> > > > I'm off list at the moment-I'll be your best friend if you email an=
y =3D
> > troubleshooting tips directly to him (and copy to me if possible). His=
=3D
> > address is davidadair@aol.com
> > I'm at lansharks@batnet.com Thanks mucho in advance.
> > > Kirk out
> > --------------------------------------
> > Date: 1/25/97 7:48 AM
> > From: DavidAdair
> > Serious question, dude-man. Driving down a dirt road, no problemas, go=
ing
> > maybe 25 mph, and the car died suddenly, no sputtering, no nothing, jus=
t
> > dead. Still have electrical systems, battery, etc., just absolutely no
> > ignition.
> > > We've had a number of occasions where the car "burps", and stalls for=
just =3D
> > a
> > second, like what I remember you describing yours doing. I've also hea=
rd =3D
> > of
> > someone who's VW used to crap out for 10 minutes, then run fine again f=
or =3D
> > a
> > month, when it would happen again. We've been baking in the sun for ab=
out =3D
> > 3
> > hours, waiting for a mechanic to show up, and nothing's improved.
> > > Question on my mind is primarily whether the "computer" could totally=
die.
> > Also, I've only checked the basics, like loose wires and made sure the=
=3D
> > rotor
> > is turning. What else should I be checking? Since it was so sudden, i=
t
> > seems like it must be electrical, like a loose or broken wire or that d=
urn
> > computer. Where is the computer, anyway? Is it the funky piece next t=
o =3D
> > the
> > air filter? What about the "controller" under the back seat?
> > > If you can e-mail some response pronto, please do. We're probably sp=
ending=3D
> > > the night here, and can call in for messages. If you can relay =3D
> > information
> > from Rodrigo if the need arises, that would be awesome. Depending on w=
hat
> > the mechanic can find or not find, we'll just call Rodrigo directly, si=
nce =3D
> > he
> > speaks Spanish anyway. I appreciate any advice you have.
> > > Cheers mon,
> > > Dave (and Whitney).... late-breaking update: we got towed to a garag=
e =3D
> > where
> > a German guy looked at our car and found only a little bit of testabili=
ty =3D
> > in
> > the ignition system. It looks like we'll replace our control unit. I =
=3D
> > called
> > Gandalf's to find out how difficult it is to get the part, cuz we're go=
ing
> > nowhere til we get it. I'll keep you posted.
> > >=20
>=20
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> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 23:18:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: Charles D Earl <cdearl@cats.ucsc.edu>
> Subject: Re: FWD>Help!!! Broken down on a dirt road in Costa Rica!
> To: Kirk van Druten <kirk@lansharks.batnet.com>
> Cc: Multiple recipients of list <vanagon@lenti.med.umn.edu>
> In-Reply-To: <970125.190507@lansharks.batnet.com>
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>=20
>=20
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