Date:         Wed, 8 Nov 1995 07:25:36 -0500 (EST)
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Kirk <captain@indy.net>
Subject:      Re: Why VW's + T&A?



On Wed, 8 Nov 1995, David L Finet wrote:

> 
> 
> On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Jim Kirk wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, David L Finet wrote:
> > 
> > > Well Jim,
> > > You may not be a pinhead about determing the worth of your auto parts, 
> > > but your stance on the scantily clad women in magizines and ads leads me 
> > > to believe differently about how you determine the worth of other human 
> > > beings.  If you MUST partake in the degradation of women, buy magazines 
> > > devoted to that, but there is no reason why a VW (or any other car) 
> > > magizine HAS to have anybody objectified.  
> > > I didn't want to go on a rant about this, but how we act as VW owners, 
> > > and whatever else we all are, has a tremendous bearing on many other 
> > > people. It seems that you have the advantages that allow you to be 
> > > "politically incorrect and proud of it" but the majority of people 
> > > don't.  Try being considerate of other people, it really doesn't hurt... 
> > > anyone.
> > > 
> > > Dave
> > 
> > Well Dave...for not wanting to go on a rant, you seem to have done a 
> > mighty fine job. I commend you!
> > 
> > Let's see, where do I start. I'm not sure how buying a VW mag and pausing 
> > to look at the bikini babes is degrading to women. These women get paid 
> > big bucks to pose in these mags. No one forces them. Why do they do this? 
> > The magazines ask them to. Why is that, you may ask? It sells magazines. 
> > Period. If it didn't, they wouldn't waste their money on it. I like to 
> > think I'm a pretty responsible VW driver. I rarely speed. (Like my bus 
> > could go over the speed limit) I always obey traffic signs. Whenever I 
> > see another VW owner broken down at the side of the road, I stop to help 
> > them. If they happen to be women, I don't start drooling. I'm very 
> > polite. I'm the same way with males. I don't think I'm a detriment to 
> > society simply because I happen to like to look at the female form. 
> > 
> > You're blowing this whole thing out of proportion. Get a life Dave.
> > 
> well again jim,
> You just don't get it do you?  Just because some women find that some men 
> will spend money to look at them doesn't mean that the results justify 
> the actions.  And as it appears that you have a hard time reading for 
> content, I'll spell it out for you again...the problem is that this kind 
> of crap promotes the "me tarzan, you jane" mentality that you display so 
> well.  women are constantly bombarded with messages which tell them that 
> their worth is measured by how "attractive" they are... only someone who 
> is pretty insecure about themself would revel in the inherent power this 
> society bestows upon undeserving heterosexual white males (like 
> yourself?) like you do.  You say that nobody forces the small number of 
> women who do this into it... the simple fact is that that proves my 
> point, they have "learned what their "value" is, and the majority of 
> women who are judged by the "silicon queen" have NO say in it. 
> 
> You seem to only be able to look at the world trough very egocentric 
> eyes, so there are a few more things I would like to point out. you keep 
> pointing out how responsible you are.
> 
> 1. you rarely speed -- but apparently you will when it suits your purpose.
> 2. you help other VWs when they are broken down -- why not people in 
> other makes?  aren't they just as worthy of help?
> 3. you don't drool when you stop -- no, apparently you do your drooling 
> at home with a VW mag.
> 
> it seems you fancy yourself quite the gentleman but only when it is easy 
> for you... not if it means truly giving of yourself.
> 
> Finally, your opinion that i am blowing this out of proportion holds 
> little sway with me, While as a Hetero-white-male I could quietly (or 
> loudly - like you) just take the inherent advantages given to me by this 
> society, I have taken a look around me to see what the situation is like 
> for other people and decided that to better it for them, I will confront 
> this sexist, racist, homophobic crap when I can.  Thanks for your advice, 
> but I've already got a life and working to stop this stuff is a part of it.
> 
> I don't expect you will ever "get it" because I have found that it IS 
> hard to teach an old dog new tricks...and if you continue to be a bully 
> about this I will simply apply my efforts someplace where i think they 
> will make a difference.  if you feel you can politely respond, and care 
> to continue this discussion I will be happy to 
> 
> dave 
> 
Sheesh Dave. It was just a joke. I thought the group needed a little 
shaking up. Now you're starting to threaten me. It's not worth it. You 
are right. I am wrong. Feel better? Jim Kirk