Date:         Sat, 09 Apr 94 21:56:40 CDT
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@vanagon.com>
From:         Joel Walker <JWALKER@ua1vm.ua.edu>
Subject:      Re: blue coolant?

I said:
>> but if no records, how do you know? sales-droid say-so?  what is the color
>> of the coolant in the little white tanks? it had better be blue!!! if it is
>> yellow or green, that means they are using a coolant that contains phosphate
>> which is NOT recommended by vw. (if you want, i'll send you my notes on the
>> coolant).
he said:
>Blue?  I just bought mine (84 gl) from a dealer and it has regular old
>green in it.  Is this serious?!

kinda depends on how paranoid you are. :)  i have heard from vw service people
that the green or yellow coolants (Prestone, Zerex, and others that do NOT
specifically say 'Phosphate-Free' on the container) might (would?) damage the
head gaskets on the water-cooled engines, both the 1.9 liter and the 2.1 liter.

this seems to match what happened to a friend's toyota truck (with aluminum
head ... some sort of crud/sludge clogged radiator and his head gasket was
eaten away.  all after he started using Prestone).  and it seems to match
what i was told about using coolants containing phosphates in mercedes.

so i called the BASF company (who make the Phosphate-Free VW coolant) to see
what they say. these are my notes:
...............................................................................
COOLANT/ANTI-FREEZE:   (1983.5 - 1991 models only)
   Recommended coolant/anti-freeze:
      Autobahn ZVW-237-104
        antifreeze & summer coolant
        Phosphate free formula for use in
        Volkswagen & Audi water cooled vehicles
      Ethylene Glycol based, Phosphate free
        recommended mixture:
           not less than 40 percent coolant, not more than 60 percent.
      sold at VW dealers only.
      manufactured by BASF  Questions? Call 1-800-669-2273
      BASF Customer Service:  1-800-445-4134
      BASF Marketing Service: 1-800-367-9865
      BASF Technical Service: 1-800-521-9100
      Info from Marketing Service:    <as of 03/94>
        BASF makes a 'generic' brand of GUARANTEED Phosphate Free
        coolant called ZEREX EXTREME 450.  It has been approved by
        VW, BMW, MB, Audi, Saab, and Volvo.  It is also GUARANTEED for
        four (4) years and 50,000 miles.  They said you CANNOT mix this
        with any other coolant; you must flush the system and fill with
        the new coolant/water mix.
      Info from Tech Svc:              <as of 03/94>
        BASF makes two (2) european formula coolants.  One is sold by
        VW, Audi, and Mercedes Dealers.  The other is sold by BMW, Saab,
        and Volvo dealers.  The reason for the phosphate free formula
        is basically two-fold:
        (1) Cosmetics: Hard water reacts with phosphates in coolant to
            form scale deposits in overflow bottles.  These deposits
            could form in other parts of the cooling system, causing
            blockage and overheating (see next part).
        (2) Corrosion: Phosphates tend to aggravate any corrosion that
            might already be present with any aluminum parts in the
            cooling system.  Aluminum Phosphate is formed, which is
            insoluble in the ethylene glycol solution of the coolant.
            The aluminum phosphate will tend to settle out in the cooler
            areas of the cooling system, causing blockage.  This can
            cause overheating of the engine, which will accelerate the
            aluminum corrosion.  In other words, the corrosion will tend
            to feed on itself until damage is done to the engine or the
            coolant is replaced (refreshing the inhibitors).

        Engine coolant should be REPLACED every two (2) years to refresh
        the silicates and other corrosion inhibitors contained in the
        coolant.

        He was not aware of any problems with coolants containing
        phosphates, but did say that if the coolant was NOT replaced
        regularly, the inhibitors would lose their effectiveness and
        become weak.  And that weakness could allow some aluminum
        corrosion to start, and become aggravated over time.
.............................................................................
so ... the question is still up in the air.  i personally have used only the
blue vw coolant (at $7 per gallon!!) and have had NO head gasket problems in
my 88 vanagon for 72,000 miles. (did have the water pump replaced, though).
the father of a fellow at work has been using Prestone and has had to replace
his head gaskets twice.  it's your choice, because i don't think we'll ever
get anybody to point the finger of guilt at anybody, nor to accept any sort
of responsibility (Prestone and Zerex all claim their stuff is 'safe for all
metals'). anyway, them's my opinions, and what little bit of data i have.
(i still keep my fingers crossed, even though i use the vw stuff!).

next item:
>> check the rear hatch struts. they go bad and cost a lot ... $50 each. use
>> that to knock down the price.
>Does anyone know of a less expensive source for these?

you could try some local auto parts places. one fellow in Houston, TX said he
got them at such a place for $35 each. in the latest issue of Popular Mechanics
(May1994), on page 106, is a little blurb about Lift Supports from AVM Inc.,
Highway 76 East, Box 729, Marion, SC 29571; (803) 464-7823.
anybody in south carolina care to check on whether they make any for vw's?

joel