Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2024 21:06:21 -0500
Reply-To: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: List advice on winter repairs , shocks, and tire sizes.
In-Reply-To: <SJ2P222MB0972980FD6093BCDADE5136EA0352@SJ2P222MB0972.NAMP222.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
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Hi Dennis,
I miss measured my current front height. It is 16 maybe 16 .25 inches Rear is 17.5.
This has the van leaning down in the front. I hope to shim the front up with some special shims I purchased for the job from T3. But, needing to get above the springs means this is a job I will need a shop to do. And I have not been able to justify the dollars just to do that so waiting to see if other front end work comes around.
My 84 is home and front and rear basically both measure 17.5 inches from metal fender lip to middle of the hub.
So, once I get my shims in the front of the 85 I’ll be pretty close to where I used to be.
I only use the air bags if I see the back is not level or very low. I usually keep about 10 pounds in them, the minimum is 5. And rarely put more then 20 pounds in just to get back to the 17 inch or so height.
I like my original springs and am optimistic that the shims in the front will put me in a good place for many years.
Eric Caron
> On Dec 1, 2024, at 7:58 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> Eric. I stand correction on replacing your springs. We didn't. However, we did shim and adjust the rear to not only raise it but to try to level off that left side sag.
> This was done with scales at all 4 wheels paying attention not to just shift excess weight to the right front You also were using those inside the spring air bags. I think we ended up adding ~3/4" left rear and 1/2" right rear.
>
> The 85's tend to sit high in the front in part to the cast lower control arms. I still that is a good height for 2WD.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 1, 2024 12:51 PM
> To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> Cc: Vanagon List <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Subject: Re: List advice on winter repairs , shocks, and tire sizes.
>
> Hi Dennis,
>
> I think this message was posted, though I found it in my junk.
>
> It is confusing now that I have two vans.
>
> My shocks on the 85 and the suspension is all good, except that the front seems to have come down a bit.
>
> My van used to sit level in my garage and I could step on the top of the front tire to reach items in the luggage rack without rubbing my shoe top.
>
> Now the van tilt a bit down in the front and slider closes itself when in the garage. And shoe rubs at fender. I think this is only about a half in drop but of course I notice it.
>
> My rear shocks on the 84 are the ones needing to be changed.
> They are Bilstein. Now that I think of it I should be able to look at those shocks and if they are the regular Bilstein length then my height for the Koni’s should be fine as a replacement for the 84.
>
> I should have it home tomorrow and can start measuring and evaluating.
> That van has GW springs put in in 2010 and I believe a slight lift. It seems to be almost the same as my 85 except level so a bit higher in the front. I’ll know soon when I can measure it exactly. Though I’m not perfect about getting the center of the hub from metal lip.
>
> On the 85. We talked about changing the springs, but I’m pretty sure I still have the original springs front and back.
>
> And I do have, on the 85, Bilstein HD from GW installed with Alistair’s great directions, in 2014. They seem to be ok still.
> So, 85 suspension good only a small drop in the front.
> 85 shocks good.
>
> Some new metal sounding creek I need to find but all seems to her functioning well.
>
> On the 85, larger tire height even just a bit to help with MPG is my hope maybe 225/60 17
>
> But, I must admit if I could be sure of clearing the slider and not rubbing in the front I’d love to try 225/65 17.
> I would not do this if I had the taller final drive gears, but with the standard gears I’m hoping this might help.
> In the 85 auto we do highway at between 55 and 65, closer to about 60 MPH. I would think I’d be getting closer to 16 mpg so I’m trying to get to that place somehow.
> These tips and conversations are incredibly helpful.
>
>
>> On Nov 29, 2024, at 9:09 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Eric,
>> Happy Friday day after Thanksgiving!
>>
>> For your 85, your suspension is tweaked about as much as it should be. You have the Syncro.Org springs and 17 to 17.5 was the design height. You also have the Bilstein HD shocks. The Bilstein are already slight longer than OEM and this presents other problems. For the rear when the wheels are dropped the drive axles are at their extreme limits. For longer shocks you will need different CV joints.
>> Also, lifting the rear further takes the rear trialing arms out of plane with the van direction of travel. Ideally the trailing arms should be close to level. When at an angle, acceleration imposes lift and deceleration imposes increased drop. For the front the already longer Bilstein shocks exceed the limits the ball joints articulate. You already have ball joint spacers on top to prevent the instant damage of the upper joints when the suspension drops or the van is lifted for service. Similar to the rear but even more critical is the angle of the front radius rods. These work best when they articulate to form from being level. When the van is raised and they run at an extreme angle toe and caster angles are affected and can’t be maintained as the suspension tries to do its job. In addition, your van was set up and shimmed not only to level it but also to balance weight. Except for maintenance your suspension is tweaked, and I wouldn't change anything.
>>
>> Now for tire sizes. If you go back in history VW using the near 25.6-inch tire goes all the way back to the first Bettles and Busses. This tire size was adhered to even going into the Eurovans. They didn't accept change. At some point in the later year they finally decided to do something different the last of the Eurovans were equipped with the 225/55-17XL. This is the size and tire design you are now running. In my opinion. For a still reasonable ride, predictable handling, and availability this is the tire for 2WD Vanagons, especially the automatics. This size is already ~5% larger then stock so there is already an engine RPM reduction. Forn the Vanagon this design tire offers benefits over the commercial "C" and "D" tires. Mostly they do not suffer from heat generation and can carry significant load at reduced pressure while still offering a reinforced sidewall for handling. For this size and design the full load rating is achieved at 42 psi. 1,819 pounds. Above the 42 psi (50 psi max) ls for handling balance and fuel economy.
>>
>> Another consideration for this tire diameter is that you can get this diameter is the spare tire carrier underneath, although a skinnier tire, 15 or 16 inch wheel. This is good for trips that should you need the spare you can continue to drive unlimited.
>>
>> As for fuel economy a larger tire help very little. It take horsepower to move a vehicle through the wind. Horsepower is function of torque X speed, (engine rpm). Reduce the speed and torque has to increase for a given work to be performed. More torque means more stress. Stress on CV joints and gears. Increased stress and cylinder pressure in the engine. This leads to increased chance of engine knock and increased NOx emissions. I know, who cares?
>>
>> Now let's see if this gets posted.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of
>> Eric Caron
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2024 7:42 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: List advice on winter repairs , shocks,
>>
>> Chris’s site is so helpful.
>>
>> My 85 sits at about 17.5 If I’m measuring correctly. I think my front used to be more like 18 but is sagging a bit.
>> My 84 is not home yet so can’t compare, but I think even with the GW springs it is almost the same as my 85.
>>
>> It does make me worry a bit that the Koni shocks being recommended to me for the rear of the van may not be the correct length.
>>
>> Fingers crossed.
>>
>> Thanks for the link.
>> Eric Caron
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2024, at 6:02 PM, Dug Smith <dug@dugbert.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Eric,
>>>
>>> It's always something, isn't it?
>>>
>>> If / when my HD Bilsteins start failing, I've been looking at:
>>>
>>> https://t3tec/
>>> hnique.com%2Fcollections%2F025-motorsport-shifter%2Fproducts%2Flifted
>>> -
>>> 2wd-vanagon-shocks&data=05%7C02%7C%7C162da764adc24a785c5c08dd0e7c763b
>>> %
>>> 7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638682649915124667%7CUnk
>>> n
>>> own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJ
>>> X
>>> aW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M2ocqeGsu
>>> T
>>> W%2FOvn%2FEMjCehxuANEFy2VwWgjRDN%2BT8n4%3D&reserved=0
>>>
>>> They have standard and lifted versions.
>>>
>>> toodle pip,
>>> --
>>> Dug Smith | Terry Pratchett: It's almost
>>> (mailto:dug@dugbert.com) | impossible to ride a rock and roll
>>> (http://www.dugbert.com/) | motorbike and stay on for three verses.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/26/2024 14:00, Eric Caron wrote:
>>>> Hi folks,
>>>> I just had some prevention work done on my 84 Coolant hoses and
>>>> pipes replaced.
>>>> and it is coming back with some recommendations for me to do on my own.
>>>> What is the list thinking on rear shocks?
>>>> Mine are leaking and are currently Bilstein. My shop is recommending Koni set to the stiffest setting. Not sure I spelled that correctly.
>>>> I’ve done shocks before so I’ll plan to do that. But, any thoughts on the shocks?
>>>> One factor, my van has a GW lift put in back in 2010. It sits tall, but not much different then my 85.
>>>> These are the GW springs.
>>>> Tips on this work appreciated.
>>>> Eric Caron
>>>> Always doing projects on the vans!
>>>
>
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