Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 17:08:11 -0400
Reply-To: Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
In-Reply-To: <B3110FA2-8BFF-48BE-AB50-6F1F04E2E829@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Sounds like you have a vacuum leak. I'd check from the air cleaner snorkel
and back. Oil breather tube as well.
Steven
91 Westy
On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 4:58 PM Eric Caron <ericcaron96@comcast.net> wrote:
> Significant update and van still not drivable.
>
> Today, with the kind help of a fellow list member, my fuel pump was
> replaced and now the van starts.
>
> Problem is now it is running very very rough and stalls unless foot is
> held to give gas.
>
> It doesn’t start unless I pump the gas peddle. Not what I expect from
> this van as it starts usually with foot off the gas.
>
> Engine sounds very rough though it sounded good earlier this week.
>
> Today we could hear that in fact the old fuel pump was turning on but it
> didn’t sound like it used to for the past 7 years. It turned on and
> vibrated but the sound was wrong. We took off the fuel line in the engine
> compartment and cycled the fuel pump a few times. No fuel.
>
> Now we have fuel but the engine sounds terrible. Starts hard with lots of
> gas and runs rough.
> I notice also more vibration than usual.
>
>
> Only thing I can do is to change the filters to see if they are
> restricting flow.
>
> Other ideas about what is going on are appreciated.
>
> Eric Caron
> 85 GL Auto
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 2019, at 1:37 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Also note that the fuel pump power is also used to power the injectors.
> The ECU operates the fuel pump relay by completing the coil circuit to
> ground. With the pump energized the ECU "fires" the injectors by completing
> that circuit to ground. The ECU operates the fuel pump during cranking
> sensing input from starter and as long as the distributor is pulsing. The
> injectors "fire" once each engine revolution, (every other spark pulse)
> with fuel delivery controlled by the length of time they are opened. As set
> of NOID lights can be very handy to test injector operation. If the
> injectors are pulsing the fuel pump relay is good. If injectors pulsing and
> pump not running wiring or a bad pump is the problem.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of vw_van_fan_Mark
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2019 9:08 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: First ride of shame, fuel issue
> >
> > The relay clicking again after a moment means the ECU is controlling the
> FP relay as it should at that point.
> >
> > Your friend would only see power at the fuel pump during that very brief
> time between relay clicks. Probably couldn't see it on a meter since it is
> so brief.
> >
> > While the engine is cranking the ECU should turn the relay on and power
> the fuel pump continuously. Then measure between the + terminal of the pump
> and - terminal. If nothing, try measuring between the + terminal and
> chassis metal near the pump.
> >
> > If still nothing is measured at the pump, behind the air cleaner is a
> single wire connector that connects from the fuel injection harness and FP
> relay forward to the fuel pump. This wire powers the fuel pump when the ECU
> tells the relay to turn on.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Eric Caron wrote:
> >> Hi listers,
> >>
> >> Keep the tips coming.
> >>
> >> Here is a update.
> >>
> >> Remember, this started as a loss of power going up hill then the van
> stopped running. It then cranked strongly but didn’t start.
> >>
> >> Friend check power at the fuel pump and found no power.
> >>
> >> I just checked the relays with the Mark method.
> >> When key turned I hear two clicks and then a moment later a single
> click.
> >>
> >> This sounds like Mark’s description of working relays.
> >>
> >> With my next helper I hope to check for power coming from the FP relay
> >>
> >> I can also remove the battery and bring it to a place for testing.
> >>
> >> But would I have had the loss of power when the van running hard due to
> a bad. Battery that still cranks?
> >>
> >> Would the ECU be bad if I’m hearing both relays click at key turn?
> >>
> >> Keep the tips coming. Remember recently together we solved my last van
> problem with the wheel squeal. We can solve this one together.
> >>
> >> Eric Caron
> >> 85 GL Auto
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Jul 27, 2019, at 4:32 PM, kenneth wilford (Van-Again) <
> kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We have been seeing failed ECUs causing this issue for a while on the
> >>> 1.9ls. The ECU actually sends a signal to activate the fuel pump
> relay.
> >>> When this part of the ECU fails then the fuel pump relay won't get
> >>> activated and the fuel pump won't come on. I have seen several folks
> >>> do a rig up that powers the fuel pump relay some other way (like
> >>> using the power to the coil from the ignition key) and this activates
> >>> the fuel pump as soon as you turn on the key and allows the van to
> >>> start. However I would not continue to use the van in this condition
> but get a rebuilt ECU instead.
> >>> If you have another Vanagon owner that is local with an 83-85 1.9l
> >>> Vanagon, you could easily swap in their ECU to see if that fixes the
> >>> problem. Save you a lot of troubleshooting.
> >>>
> >>> Ken
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 4:13 PM OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 27 Jul , 2019, at 12:14 PM, Eric Caron wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I’m not ruling out a bad start battery either but it does seem to
> >>>>> be
> >>>> operating the starter. It did so strongly on the side of the road
> >>>> and a bit less so now. I have a charger on it now.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do have the Battery Tested ~ If You happen to have 1 Shorted
> >>>> Cell & the other Cells have a good charge It will
> >>>>
> >>>> crank well but there will not be enough Voltage to make the ECU
> "Happy"
> >>>> enough to allow a Start ~
> >>>>
> >>>> Had this happen to Me Many Many Years ago in 1 of My VDub
> >>>> Vans ~
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Ken Wilford
> >>> John 3:16
> >>> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.vanagain.com&
> >>> amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C0d553315e1134732956c08d712f81e8e%7C84df9e7fe9f6
> >>> 40afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636998729238198403&sdata=5%2F%2F2y
> >>> 5xISFvxT7T1eUXMe2SZFV4Rui3ZjFQ3M0NCrwY%3D&reserved=0
> >>
>
| 
