Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:58:35 -0400
Reply-To: Tom Stone <tstone8359@AOL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Tom Stone <tstone8359@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine Puzzlememt
In-Reply-To: <EDE7E918-9A0E-4447-B2A0-B1A497306DF3@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"
Ok. I have a Bentley here. I'll dive into this over the weekend. I just
hope the source of the problem is self-evident! Going back to Ohio Wed.
Thanks again for your help.
Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida.
On June 22, 2018 6:50:24 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, you’ll need to unbolt the front mount (I mistakenly called it the rear
> mount earlier, there are 4 bolts to the body) and lower the front of the
> tranny a bit. Keep the TC pushed onto the tranny, don’t move it out too
> much or it will come off one of the three splined shafts. It would be best
> to get your hands on a copy of the Bentley too.
>
> Stuart
>
>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> So since you are more familiar with what is needed to properly diagnose my
>> problem, let me ask you this: If I support the engine, unbolt the TC from
>> the flex plate, unbolt the front trans mount, can I pull the trans away
>> from the engine enough to get a good look/see?
>>
>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>
>>> On June 22, 2018 6:05:16 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course you will need to support the engine and tranny and remove the
>>> rear mount, but it’s worth a try before disconnecting everything.
>>>
>>>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 2:14 PM, Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your suggestions. I'll take a look at what it will take to get
>>>> the tranny out and back in.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>>
>>>>> On June 22, 2018 4:28:46 PM Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, if it won’t turn 360 with the starter off it’s time to pull the
>>>>> tranny. It’s something in the bell housing jamming the TC or flex plate, or
>>>>> even something inside the engine. 😕
>>>>>
>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 22, 2018, at 12:29 PM, Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I took the starter out and spun the engine by hand as far as it would go.
>>>>>> Other than some shiny teeth, probably from the starter misalignment, I
>>>>>> didn't see any major damage. The ring gear is pretty hefty. How can I see
>>>>>> the rest of the ring gear and what would damage that would stop engine
>>>>>> rotation look like?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On June 22, 2018 14:19:25 Tom Stone <tstone8359@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I took the plugs out and tried to turn the engine by hand in both
>>>>>>> directions. It stopped in the same places. I removed or disconnected all
>>>>>>> of the components connected to the engine yesterday. They all spun freely,
>>>>>>> but the engine would not. I will pull the starter off again and inspect
>>>>>>> the ring gear. Thanks for the suggestion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On June 22, 2018 14:00:55 "Stuart MacMillan" <stuartmacm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you using your hands on the pulley (or belt) to turn over the engine,
>>>>>>>> which should be fairly easy with plugs out, or the starter? If you can turn
>>>>>>>> the engine around fully by hand but not with the starter, you have a badly
>>>>>>>> damaged ring gear on the torque converter. Probably happened when the
>>>>>>>> starter mount was broken due to misalignment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stuart
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com> On Behalf Of Dennis
>>>>>>>> Haynes
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 10:35 AM
>>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Short bolt bottom of starter?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Tom Stone<mailto:tstone8359@aol.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 12:22 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Dennis Haynes<mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com<mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Dennis and Jim. I pulled the spark plugs and there were no fluids
>>>>>>>> inside the cylinders. Manually turned engine to stop point in both
>>>>>>>> directions. It stops in the same places. I checked all three torque
>>>>>>>> converter bolts. All seem tight. Going to remove some exhaust pieces to
>>>>>>>> verify.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since the last change made to the engine was the installation of the starter
>>>>>>>> long bolt, I am looking for some kind of obstruction in that area.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for your always helpful suggestions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in Florida.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On June 21, 2018 19:08:09 Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look for a loose torque converter bolt. One of the three between converter
>>>>>>>> and flex plate or something fell in there. Also, if multiple tries to crank
>>>>>>>> engine the cylinders could be locked up with gasoline. Remove the spark
>>>>>>>> plugs and check.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Tom Stone<mailto:tstone8359@AOL.COM>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 6:01 PM
>>>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM<mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Engine Puzzlememt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Working on my son's '91 Westy Automatic. New engine from the guy that took
>>>>>>>> over Boston Bob's business. It was installed and running. The starter had
>>>>>>>> been installed with only the short bolt which had loosened. The starter lost
>>>>>>>> ground and would only work intermittently. Then the bolt ear broke. I got a
>>>>>>>> new starter and the long bolt and installed it with both bolts. Now the
>>>>>>>> engine will only rotate to a certain point and stop. I can manually turn the
>>>>>>>> engine backwards and it stops turning at just before the stop point. I took
>>>>>>>> the starter off and ran it. I took the belts off the P/S pump, the
>>>>>>>> alternator and the water pump (A/C not connected) and they all turn freely.
>>>>>>>> I took the valve covers off and without being able to rotate the engine,
>>>>>>>> visually checked for a valve stem in each keeper. I am at a loss for what to
>>>>>>>> look at next and what might have happened.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tom Stone, temporarily in FL where it is hot!
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