Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2016 16:38:13 -0800
Reply-To: T3 Technique <christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: T3 Technique <christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM>
Subject: Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
In-Reply-To: <vanagon%2016011819061437@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hi Ed,
Sure, no problem!
The Whiteline UCA bushings are not on the website right now because they
had to go through a redesign. The inner bore of the inner sleeves were too
small to reliably fit over the upper control arm bolt. This has been
redesigned and they will be available again very soon. Any that you may find
on the market as of today will be the older design.
The differences between the Powerflex and Whiteline UCA bushings are that
the Powerflex parts use stainless inner sleeves and the Whiteline version
uses plated steel. The Powerflex UCA bushings are ever-so-slightly softer
than the Whitelines, but unless you compare them back to back, you can't
feel the difference in the seat of your pants. Other than that, price is the
biggest difference. The Powerflex UCA bushings retail for $254.99 (but
discounts are available) and the Whiteline UCA bushings are $179.82.
I have run them both in different personal Vanagons and I like both of
them. Being a bit of a suspension "snob", I prefer the feel of the Powerflex
over Whiteline, but both and improvement over the stock style bushings as
far as how smooth and soft they feel.
Thanks,
Christopher
www.t3technique.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Ed McLean
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:06 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
Christopher,
Thanks for the informative response. Your comments and product descriptions
are very helpful.
Your representation of the failure rates for Powerflex and Whiteline
bushings is better that expected for excellent products that are being
installed sometimes by unskilled vehicle owners.
On T3 Technique's website I don't find Whiteline upper control arm bushings,
although I do find them on the Whiteline website. Would you compare and
contrast for us the Powerflex and Whiteline upper control arm bushings?
Thanks again,
Ed
On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 14:51:55 -0800, T3 Technique
<christopher@T3TECHNIQUE.COM> wrote:
>Hi Ed,
>
> Some may feel that I shouldn't be answering this due to having an
interest in certain bushings, but those that know me are aware that I am
always very honest about the information that I share. That said, you should
still take this with a grain of salt.
>
> I obviously sell the Powerflex and Whiteline upper control arm
bushings. I have literally sold thousands of them (fewer of the Whiteline
upper control arm bushings because they are much newer). Out of those
thousands, there have been a few bushings that failed over the years.
However, the same can be said for many, many products. Very few products
have a perfect track record. I think I have had somewhere in the
neighborhood of 10-12 Powerflex upper control arm bushings that have failed
and zero Whiteline upper control arm bushings have failed (a much smaller
number of them are on the road) . There is a lifetime warranty on both of
these products. While no one wants to have to replace upper control arm
bushings because they failed, at least the parts are 100% covered.
>I have over 100,000 miles on my personal 2wd with the Powerflex UCA
bushings and they have never been touched, not even to change the grease.
They are as quiet today as they were from day one. I have other customers
with mileage up near that range and same thing with them. As long as the
proper grease is used (and used liberally) during installation, there is no
problem with noise.
>
> You do not need to tack weld the Powerflex or the Whiteline upper
control arm bushing shells into the upper control arm if they press tightly
into place. There have only been a couple of reported situations where the
shells did not press into the arms tightly. In those cases, it seems that
the arms were possibly abused during previous bushing replacements which
deformed the hole. I suppose it is possible for corrosion to be concern when
considering the hole size, but I have never seen this happen. I always
advise customers to press the shells in place, making sure to pay attention
to how much effort it takes. If it seems like the effort to press the shells
in is too light, than they should tack them in place for added insurance.
>
>As for the other bushings out there that are made with much harder
material for the bushing portion (be it Delrin, rod ends with PTFE liners or
other materials that have almost zero isolation properties), the harder
bushing material transfers much more road vibration and harshness into the
chassis since there is almost no isolation properties in the bushing
material. This is most commonly felt on roads with rough, gravely surfaces
and when hitting things like expansion joints and pot holes. You will not
feel a difference when hitting smoother bumps. I am not saying this as a
theoretical possibility. I'm saying this having experienced and tested a
number of different bushings designs and materials so that I could speak
honestly about the differences.
>
> I hope that helps explain a bit about the Powerflex and Whiteline
upper control arm bushings, but please feel free to ask if you have any
questions.
>
>Thanks,
>Christopher
>www.t3technique.com
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
Of email99@bellsouth.net
>Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 1:43 PM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Upper control arm bushings failed again, upgrade advice sought
>
>Well, three years ago I replaced the ball joints, tie rod ends and
upper control arm bushings on my '86 Westy, putting grease fittings in the
ball joints and tie rod ends. The greased joints are still tight but the
upper control arm bushings are clunking and squeaking on one side once
again. Only a long time Vanagon owner can appreciate how frustrating this
is. I can't recall how many times I have done this in the past 24 years.
>
>So it's time to fix it again and I can't see using original design
bushings so I'll ask the list to share its knowledge.
>
>
>Are there upper control arm bushing upgrades other than those produced
by GoWesty and those produced by T3 Technique?
>
>What experience have people had with these upgrades? What problems?
>
>How many miles do you have on them and are they still tight? Do they
make noise? Have any failed? Is there a noticeable difference in the ride?
Are GoWesty bushings secure without spot welding? What is your perception of
the design and quality of the parts? Do you have any other comments?
>
>
>I appreciate any and all comments about the upper control arm bushings.
>You may post these back to the list or send them only to my email if
you wish.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Ed
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