Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:43:34 -0800
Reply-To: Anthony Egeln <regnsuzanne@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Anthony Egeln <regnsuzanne@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Fw: Subaru EJ20 Turbo Diesel - Payback
In-Reply-To: <CAO+Ycs+iSYQ51Do70mggi0xMQ5EcrE-urDDn5YeD0owonS36-g@mail.gmail.com>
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There is more to the "payback" issue than just fuel economy, or the price of gas vs. diesel.
Follow this perspective.
If I buy a new Sprinter van for, what, $30+ grand? Or even a new Honda Odyssey at $28 grand, to serve my transportation and recreational needs, what is my payback on that?
If I spend $11-12 grand to upgrade my beloved to the modern world of engines and fuel management, isn't that a better deal? With the added benefit of utility that a new vehicle today may not be able to provide as well as the Vanagon.
So IMHO there is more to it than just fuel economy issues.
Cheers, Anthony
'89 Syncro GL (Hidalgo)
________________________________
From: Al Knoll <anasasi@GMAIL.COM>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Subaru EJ20 Turbo Diesel
It is the shape of the graph that is important not the scales. Send me the
graph data and I'll make a converted graph for all to share. Or send me a
large scale picture 5x7 inches of the graph and I'll go from there.
Diesel torque curves as you know are very different from gasoline torque
curves. To generate thrust, the force that pushes your vanagon down the
road, the torque from the engine, is passed through the transmission
reduction gearing out through the drive axles to the wheel spindles. If
you have 100 lbs/ft of torque at the drive axle and it is being resolved
through a moment arm of one foot (the distance from the center of the axle
to the ground via the wheel and tire radii) you achieve 100lbs of thrust or
push from the contact patch of the tire to the vehicle.
Adjusting the example numbers to fit the particular instance of your van is
left as a pretty simple exercise. I don't have your numbers but I can help
you figure it all out.
The most interesting thing is that it uses SUBARU clutch bits not some
singlesourced specialty item that may suddenly become NLA if the fellow in
Palmdale or Tacomadness WA, fades away.
Take a drive in a diesel vanagon of any sort and see how you like it.
Might not be your cup of tea.
It will take years to recover the cost of putting this in your van based on
diesel vs gasoline prices. Ask the fellow what his particular gearing is,
what he achieves in fuel consumption on the road, then work the numbers to
see how long it will take to recover the investment you have planned.
Unless of course you have Tom Hanks in your pocket.
EG if the fuel cost differential is 20% more for diesel and the fuel
consumption is 20% less than gasoline it's a fuel wash. No gain. Only the
expense and problems of removing and installing a newish motor into a
ancient diva in decline.
Run the numbers, drive a diesel, a turbo if you have access to one, report
back to the volks on the list.
Happy trails.
Pensionerd.
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