Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2013 17:37:27 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Replacing Starter on 85 Vanagon - Jackstands or Ramps ?-The
bypass button.
In-Reply-To: <20130320235114.R2TWV.674648.imail@eastrmwml206>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Hi Dave..
re having a starter button or 'cheater wire' in the engine compartment
and 'self-rescue.'
It's very typical for someone to say 'my car won't start' ..
then after a while we find out they mean 'it won't crank on the starter'
( as opppossed to 'it cranks but won't fireup." Since the invention of
the electric starter people have been saying 'it won't start' ..and
rarely does anyone make it clear exactly what they mean the first time
they mention it.
so ..when the starter won't crank from the igntion key..
one very effective , fast, and easy test is operate the starter
indpenedent of the igntion switch ...
doing so can provide very useful information ..
Since you have taken the ign sw. and all those wires out of the
pictureby using a Remote Starter Switch on the starter..
or on your cheater wire in the engine compartment,
or even by touching your cheater wire to the alternatorhot post.
in the case of a spit apart igntion switch ....if the 'igntion on' part
still worked ..
you could have just fired up your engine from the backafter turning on
the key. That would be an example of self-rescue.
Having your button only work with the key on is not that handy, because
there are times you want to crank the engine without it firing up ( you
could pull a coil wire of course to dissable igntion ) ..
like while checking compression for example.
it's just very handy to have another way to operte the starter indendent
of much of the van's wiring.
Believe it or not ..
there are some people that if I say 'turn on the key but don't start it'
..they are totally confused.
Actually ..a lot of people who drive vanagons don't even know how to
start them right.
You are supposed to turn the key to 'on' ...observe that the warning
lights are working ..
Then, start it. I like to listen for the fuel pump to run and shut off
first too, before turning to 'start'.
There are vanagons right now running around with non-working oil warning
lights..
and they people don't know it because they never turn on the key and
check that the warning lights are working.
Sometimes I'llput a heavy duty generic starter button in that nice flat
spot right above the lights switch ...
because the wires in the van , and the ign switch, being 25+years old
and slightly underbuilt in the first place, can't deliver a really good
shot of juice to the starter solenoidsometimes.
I also install a starter booster relay if there is any reason or excuse to..
like say using a aftermarket gear reduction starter on an engine
conversion.
the igntion switches are really 'cheap little things' ..
Low grade new ones are like 8 bucks or something silly like thatsometimes.
I sure appreciate that Van Cafe makes an effort to get quailty vanagon
replacement parts.
and I also just like having some other way to trigger the starter in
addtion to just the one stock igntion switch ..
redundancy ya know. Increases reliabilitywhen done right.
nice to see your note,
scott
www.turbovans.com
On 3/20/2013 4:51 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
> Dennis, it will crank the engine over without the key being on, it just won't start it, so I provided incorrect information, I see now. The starter motor is activated by the button, but not the ignition unless the key is on. Same answer, or different? mcneely
>
> ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Sounds like it was wired using the power for the ignition as the source. Since the ignition circuit is not designed to carry that load, including the circuit within the fuse block you may be adding future failures. Yes these things at times can be helpful and that is why test switches and alligator clips are available.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:48 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Re: Replacing Starter on 85 Vanagon - Jackstands or Ramps ?
>>
>> ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>> while you're in there,
>>> consider installiong a starter trigger cheater wire to hide in the
>>> engine compartment..
>>> that's awfully handy for self-rescue, starter testing, compression testsetc.
>> Scott, I had my mechanic add a push button starter switch in the engine compartment. He replaced the ignition switch also, which had a seam on the plastic housing that had spread open (how that would happen I do not know). However, the key has to be on for the button to activate the starter. That obviates someone using the button to start the van and drive it away without a key, but if it does not bypass the ignition switch, how does it help me to self rescue? I should have gotten that explanation from him, but I did not at the time. Can you help me to understand how this thing works and what the pros and cons are?
>>
>> Thanks, mcneely
>>
> --
> David McNeely
>
