Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2013 20:56:21 -0500
Reply-To: Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Craig Cowan <phishman068@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold?
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds7BA36F9CFA9150D9A99F2A0010@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hmm...
It does have a bleed hole in it.
Must be crap then.
I'll take it back and put in a used thermostat, which i will test in water
first.
-Craig
On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:
> I have seen my share of defective thermostats and being German, (if it
> really is), doesn't mean anything. It also has to have the correct
> characteristics. Due to the really massive capacity of the Vanagon cooling
> system the stat is really important for cold weather operation.
> Unfortunately due to lack of demand the proper stats are no longer
> available
> from the dealer. I have yet to see an aftermarket stat that works as well.
> Also where did you get the stat? If from a local parts store most likely
> you
> actually have the wrong stat. Most of the aftermarket books just use the
> top
> disc diameter for identification and will supply an Audi stat. The Audi
> stats have a lower disc that is too large and in the wrong place. These
> will
> jam open or worse not fully open when needed. One design feature of the OEM
> stats is the top inner disc actually has a rubber seal to prevent any
> leakage-bypass when closed. Some aftermarket stats will even have a bleed.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Craig Cowan
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 3:16 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold?
>
> Well the thermostat was a new, german built unit. Yes, i believe it's
> defective. I plan to install a known good used one soon.
> I tried cardboard infront of the radiator and sure enough, the temp still
> dives at highway speeds. Very odd.
> I will be unplugging the o2 sensor and seeing if that makes it run like
> crap
> on my next drive of any substance.
> I have put some injector cleaner in the gas, and it has been pointed out to
> me that the starting issue could be a leaking injector, which would also
> account for the decreased fuel mileage. I plan to send a spare set off to
> the wizards for testing/calibrating.
>
> -Craig
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Dennis Haynes
> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> > I know it's not Friday but how about doing some real honest to
> > goodness trouble shooting? Seriously! It is easy enough to test the O2
> > sensor to determine if you are getting proper mixture control. Also,
> > if the engine temperature is falling at highway speed you may be going
> > into open loop control or even worse warm up enrichment. In addition
> > the lower temp also means less efficiency and increased oil viscosity.
> > Four screws, change the t-stat. Keep in mind that extended warm up
> > time, idling, additional headlight and heater fan use all affect fuel
> > economy. Automatics and Syncros take a real hit for winter operation.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf Of Craig Cowan
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 3:19 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold?
> >
> > Well, i've gotten a step closer to solving the running issues, i believe.
> > Yesterday i found the temp gauge will still dive above 60mph, and it
> > was warmer (25*F or so?), but i think the issue is bigger than just a
> > faulty/weird thermostat. I think my 8mpg running is in part coming
> > from terrible grounds.
> > When I first built this bus, for whatever reason I seem to have forgot
> > to deal with the grounds?
> > My chronically slow starting condition suddenly made since, and i dove
> > into the engine bay to find the braided cable snapped off in my hand,
> > and all the ring terminals looked like crap.
> > I cleaned up some of the ring terminals and replaced the ends of a few
> > others. I put a 4 gauge grounding cable from the engine to the body
> > and from the starter motor's lower bolt to the body.
> > My starting is still screwed up, but seems improved.
> > I can't wait to see how this effected fuel economy. I imagine the
> > entire fuel injection system was reading poorly if the grounds weren't
> sound.
> > Hopefully my messing with wires didn't awaken any new beasts.....
> >
> > We shall see.
> >
> > -Craig
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Stuart MacMillan
> > <stuartmacm@gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > > I've had a surprising number of aftermarket thermostats not work
> > > properly over the years. Quality control is non-existent on some of
> > these
> > parts.
> > > Your high speed temp drop points to the T stat not cycling or
> > > opening too far at speed, which is pumping the coolant through the
> > > valve at
> > higher
> > > pressure and perhaps holding it fully open. T stats are constantly
> > > adjusting, or should be, to keep the engine temp constant.
> > >
> > > Change it to what Dennis recommends.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > > '85 Westy
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Craig Cowan
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:00 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE/Running Cold?
> > >
> > > Hmm.... It is an aftermarket thermostat but stock temp and speced
> > > for the Vanagon. It was stamped Germany and the club installed it,
> > > getting the seal of approval by several members.
> > > It also did operate as expected, and it works fine up to 60mph.
> > > Odd....
> > >
> > > -craig
> > >
> > > On Jan 24, 2013, at 2:18 PM, David Milo <dellaone@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > > From a post on 12/12/12 from Dennis Haynes: What are you referring
> > > > to as high temperature? The stock Thermostat rating is 87C, (188F).
> > > > That is plenty and should be used all year. From experience, the
> > > > most consistent acting and best response are the ones from the
> dealer.
> > > > (???). Of the features of the part the top control disc has a
> > > > rubber gasket to ensure no leak by when it is closed. Next choice
> > > > would be the Wahler, (German). I have had some Mehle that fit but
> > > > they may be
> > > coming from unknown sources.
> > > > If you do go to a parts store, almost all will sell you the wrong
> > > > stat. The lower disc will be the wrong diameter. If the listing
> > > > includes some Audi or other vehicles it is wrong.
> > > > The confusion comes from the practice that T-stats get listed for
> > > > vehicles based on just a few specifications. Usually the top
> > > > housing diameter is the key. Vlave types, bypasses, bleeds,
> > > > lengths and other
> > > features get lost.
> > > > This is a real problem even in American vehicles, trucks, RV's
> > > > that need stats with more flow and thus use a different design
> > > > such as umbrella instead of disc. The wrong stat may jam partly
> > > > open and/or not open far enough for proper cooling.
> > > >
> > > > Dave Milo
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 2:10 PM, David Milo <dellaone@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Aftermarket thermostat? Could be malfunctioning. I have read many
> > > >> times from Dennis Haynes that most aftermarket thermostats do not
> > > >> fit or operate properly. Extreme conditions could exacerbate that.
> > > >>
> > > >> Dave Milo
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 1:23 PM, Jeff Lincoln <magikvw@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> I am reluctant to reply to this Craig but is it possible, even
> > > >>> at 15deg, that it's just because it's cold?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Gertie runs the temp gauge dead on center - consistantly, until
> > > >>> this week
> > > >>> -
> > > >>> it's been very cold here this week ranging from about 2deg to 15
> > > >>> or so - the needle is running at about 1/4 - 1/3 and cabin heat
> > > >>> is there but not as it was. Again, I could be talking out my
> > > >>> backside but it sort of made sense to me - thinking about trying
> > > >>> the cardboard trick myself just to see if it helps.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Jeff
> > > >>> '85 GL (Gertie)
> > > >>> '78 Bus (Melissa) Patty's Bus
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
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