Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 03:27:48 -0500
Reply-To: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Freeze Plugs was Oops - I let the engine freeze
In-Reply-To: <20110204232346.64V2K.925071.imail@eastrmwml47>
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If it keeps getting any colder here in New England, we're gonna need to
start running Canadian mix!
BTW, the water is what does the cooling, so less water equals less ability
to cool the engine (but when outside temps are that low, what does it
matter?) Summer weather would require switching back to 50/50 mix.
Mike B.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Mcneely
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 11:23 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Freeze Plugs was Oops - I let the engine freeze
I know that a richer mix is run way up north. I'll look up what is
recommended. Probably the 60:40 that you mention, rather than the 70:30
that I thought I remembered. I knew the part about too concentrated being
undesirable, I just didn't remember for sure what the actual recommended in
the cold lands is.
mcneely
---- Jim Arnott <jrasite@EONI.COM> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>
> > ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >> never had the problem myself.
> >> 50-50 mixture is so easy to have in there.
> >> For most people if it's even 'sorta close' it's adequate.
> >>
> >> and since it should be in there year-round ..
> >> it sure 'should' be in all cars, no excuse not too really.
> >
> > Well, the original poster's engine or other components likely did
> > not freeze, but the engine probably experienced the too frequent
> > leaking from the heads in cold weather that our vans are known for.
> > But, he reported that the temperature was -25 F. Slightly too
> > dilute a mixture, and microclimate variability in temperature, and
> > freezing could be a possibility for any vehicle. If I lived in a
> > climate where -25 was a possibility, I'd run Canadian mix rather
> > than U.S. At least I think I would. Back when I was a kid, in
> > Dallas, in my family we ran 50:50 at a time when it was not yet the
> > common recommendation. Some folks still ran denatured alcohol in
> > car engines in winter at that time, and others drained the radiator
> > and block on cold nights. I knew more than one person whose car
> > block froze. My father thought that was simple carelessness, and we
> > ran 50:50 ethylene glycol.
>
> Sorry folks. Living where we are about guaranteed to see -20 deg. F at
> least a couple times a year means that I KNOW about coolant/
> antifreeze. A couple years ago, I believed as many of you seem to.
> More is better. Not so. I was the guy that made it 3 miles out of
> town before the h pipe failed. About 80% ethylene glycol. Frozen solid.
>
> You want a 50:50 mix. Too much ethylene glycol raises the freezing
> point. Too little ethylene glycol raises the freezing point. 50:50.
> Dow Chemical says 60:40 is that absolutely richest.
>
> See the linked article.
>
> http://www2.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html
>
> "Actually, this is to be expected when one considers that ethylene
> glycol, the principal component of most antifreezes, freezes at 8
> degrees above zero, Fahrenheit. It is only when water is added that
> the freezing point is depressed. The freezing point of an ethylene
> glycol and water mixture drops rapidly as the concentration of glycol
> is increased to a mixture of about 60% antifreeze and 40% water.
> Around that point, an abrupt turnabout occurs, and as more antifreeze
> is added, the freezing point rises almost as fast as it had previously
> dropped."
>
> Jim
> (deep in the (remember the Oregon Trail game?) Blue Mountains)
--
David McNeely
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