Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 19:41:25 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Starter: it's one or another
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=original
a battery load test is real easy to do.
Many places that sell batteries will load test yours for free.
you want to see that with a good load on it, it'll hold about 10 or 10.5
volts for say ...15 to 20 seconds say.
It is not a *totally definitive* test ..but it's free and easy and can be
useful.
you should at least check your charging voltage ....13.8 minimum acceptable.
Battery isolators can mess with that too...so if two batteries, check
charging voltage at starting battery for sure.
84's have a small battery cable ..upgraded in 86 to a near twice as fat one
.
that tells you something.
I always run a 2.1 starter in a 1.9 if one is handy ..it's a stronger
starter, though I don't know if the part listing for an automatic
distinguishes between 1.9 and 2.1
on the trans battery ground strap.................. the only test that
counts in my world is if you look at it yourself...
it was just worked on after all. I seem mistakes on shop's work *all the
time.* .
if it's been worked on ...that's where you look first !
I could write that line 5 times.
I added a bigger battery cable to my own 85..
though it's always been somewhat challenged about fast starter cranking ..
seems that the battery can only stay good for about 5 days ..
more than that amount of time, and ..it's weak ...
like there is a current drain, or that new bargain price battery isn't that
good, though identical ones in other vans are fine.
it'll crank like ..'I can't quite do it' ...like strong resistance to
turning over.
when it does that, I just turn key off and try it again ..
usually it cranks right through and fires right up then ( 2.1 engine, but I
don't think that's the real issue )
fwiw..
I put a new rebuilt starter into a local 84 Westy a while ago. Got one
locally due to wanting one right away.
first one didn't work out. Now a few months later the second new one isn't
working so well...like bad bendix drive gear.
so ...just wanting to get the van running again, I grabbed a used one of
mine..
maybe it's for a 2.1 ....a used, genuine Bosch vanagon starter ..
that person's van cranks like gangbusters now !~
we are both agreed...leave it alone for now!
Heck, I'm jealous of how strong that starter is ..
and I don't think we are putting the new-in-the-box new one back in either.
if your battery is 5 + years old and you just think it's tired ....might not
be a waste to get a new one.
I get the diesel vanagon battery ..
same size and terminal style, just more cranking amps.
I like as many cold cranking amps in a battery as I can get.
600 is about 'par' ....800 is getting up there - mo betta.
400 is way low and cheap .
get a small hydrometer at your flaps, for checking battery cells.
this will tell you if one cell is weak compared to the others.
if one cell is weak...the whole battery is weak.
its' a very definitive, simple, cheap test.
all 6 cells should show about the same specific gravity with the battery
properly charged.
a small battery hydrometer is about $ 4.
buying a new battery isn't a very good way to trouble shoot hard cranking ..
so only if you know it's really due anyway.
and check the ground strap yourself, personally, with your own eyeballs and
hands .
and charging voltage ..
very important.
occasionally I will put a solid state adjustable voltage regulator in a
bosch alternator ..but not if I don't need to.
also ...always consider the ignition switch ..they are just underbuilt and a
bit weak.
Sometimes I'll put a nice heavy duty generic starter button ..mounted on
that flat spot above the light switch ...
with dedicated fat wires to it.
that works by golly.
also ...don't like to resort to these much myself, but there is the Starter
Booster Relay upgrade..
that way the current your ignition switch carries is only enough to energize
a relay ..
which is almost no current, depending on type of relay, and the path from
battery hot terminal on starter solenoid to trigger terminal is very short
..getting a hotter shot to the solenoid to energize it better.
Though that won't increase starter cranking strength though. ..
it does 'wake up' the starter circuit in some cases. I don't normally fit
them, I'd do a big dedicated starter button first ..but that is only about
getting the starter energized in the first place, and not about making it
crank better.
if it's not one thing , it's another ..
but we love these vans !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
( too bad there really isn't anything to replace them ..
but their isn't ! ..what would that be ? Dodge Sprinter ? ...too big and
truck like.
there isn't anything really that can be all that vanagons are. ..and
there's no limit to how great they can get either. the new soccer mom mini
Chrysler van sure isn't it. Hopefully that new design did its job
protecting the people in that head-on in BC. )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 6:38 PM
Subject: Starter: it's one or another
> On our recent trip, I noticed that Mellow Yellow's starter had quite a
> bit of hesitation when the engine was warm. Turning the key would result
> in a single "chug," then a pause, then "chug, chug, chug" and the engine
> would start.
>
> This is not new, it's been going on for a couple years at least, and
> it's getting worse.
>
> Two possibilities come to mind: high resistance in the starter motor
> main current path, or weak starter battery.
>
> I am in agreement with David Beierl that fat copper cables don't "wear
> out" or develop high resistances due to age. Without damage to the
> insulation, the copper will be fine. The transmission's ground strap was
> just re-tightened when the transmission was pulled and replaced.
>
> Besides -- should a warm engine be easier, not harder, to turn over?
>
> I lean toward the theory that the starter battery is getting long in the
> tooth. Those things do wear out.
>
> Unless someone talks me down, I'm just going to go out and buy a
> replacement.
>
> --
> Rocky J Squirrel
> '84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> '74 Westrailia: (Ladybug Trailer company, San Juan Capistrano, Calif.)
> Bend, OR
> KG6RCR
