Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:46:08 -0700
Reply-To: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Rocket J Squirrel <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Electronic Rustproofing?
In-Reply-To: <0a5501ca1dcd$68bb5890$3400a8c0@tomrmkj2yanjy9>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
But that's even better.
--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
Bend, OR
KG6RCR
On 8/15/2009 10:25 AM Tom Hargrave wrote:
> Actually worse, I'm a geek and a nerd....
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Hargrave
> Our Web Sites:
> www.kegkits.com
> http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.andyshotsauce.com
> 256-656-1924
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
> Rocket J Squirrel
> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:11 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Electronic Rustproofing?
>
> Tom, as a geek, I do love reading an in-depth response to a technical
> question. Many thanks for the info!
> --
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> Bend, OR
> KG6RCR
>
>
>
> On 8/15/2009 9:42 AM Tom Hargrave wrote:
>
>> Corrosion occurs when you have metal surfaces with positive ions and
>> negative ions and those areas are bridged with a conductor (water or salt
>> water) Surface rust is caused by positively charged metal surfaces being
>> exposed to oxygen and it not the same as corrosion. Actually, surface rust
>> can build up a barrier that will help to prevent corrosion. Aluminum and
>> copper as well as quite a few other metals will do this as soon as they
> are
>> exposed to air, so does stainless steel. So will mild and high carbon
> steel
>> if given a chance - this the dark brown coating an items like carbon steel
>> knives, the brown coating (called browning) on old handguns & long guns
> and
>> on old steel antiques. Some of today's spray on "rust converters /
> stoppers"
>> chemically build a brown oxide layer and if applied right, work well.
>>
>> The electronic Rustproofing devices work by keeping everything at a slight
>> negative charge and the theory is that with no positively charged metal
>> there will be no corrosion. I remember people trying to sell these in the
>> 70s and even then those who were selling the units could prove they worked
>> "in theory". The problem comes from that fact that we all already have one
>> of these devices installed in every one of our cars!!!
>>
>> Let me explain.....
>>
>> Years ago car manufacturers noticed that car bodies with a positive ground
>> electrical system would corrode much faster than car bodies with a
> negative
>> ground electrical system. This is why all cars manufactured today have a
>> negative ground electrical system. All of the positive ions gather on the
>> positive side of the electrical system (the hot side) and all of the
>> negative ions gather on the negative side of the electrical system (the
>> ground side which also happens to be the car body). This is also why the
>> surface of your copper wires turn dark so fast and why only the positive
>> terminal of your battery corrodes!
>>
>> BTW, boats take a much more aggressive approach. They bond all of the
> metal
>> parts together with copper wire then they run a wire to a sacrificial
> anode,
>> usually zinc, below the water line. This guarantees that the anode has
>> positive ions & everything else has negative ions, causing the anode to
>> corrode away instead of the other metal parts.
>>
>> We could do the same thing with our cars but I don't think you want to be
>> standing waste high in water. But VW and the other car companies did the
>> next best thing. They started building cars in the 80s with steel panels
>> coated with a sacrificial anode - it's called zinc plating. The problem is
> -
>> steel is different than any other metal alloy. Steel has localized regions
>> of positive and negative charged ions and body corrosion starts once the
>> anode (the zinc plating) has been used up, even in a small area.
>>
>> And there are other issues with car bodies. Welding and folding plated
> steel
>> damages the zinc coating. Plus, once seam areas get wet they tend to stay
>> wet. This is why corrosion usually starts in seams - the zinc coating was
>> damaged during manufacturing and / or was used up there first. The right
>> answer is to repair those areas then protect them with a good undercoating
>> that won't let oxygen (air) or moisture come in contact with the steel
>> surface. Undercoating seams that have started to rust will only slow
> things
>> down because you can't get the moisture out.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tom Hargrave
>> Our Web Sites:
>> www.kegkits.com
>> http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/
>> www.stir-plate.com
>> www.andyshotsauce.com
>> 256-656-1924
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
>> Max Wellhouse
>> Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 9:12 AM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Electronic Rustproofing?
>>
>> Well, the title says it all. I was on the Subie Outback web page and
>> saw this little gem. Apparently some dealers are selling electronic
>> rustproofing for your car now. Can't confirm what country this was
>> in, but a reply on the post was a guy from Austrailia fixin' to
>> become a dealer for such stuff. To say the least, she got a lot of
>> response saying it wouldn't work and the process was likened to the
>> electronic(magnetic) fuel conditioners for sale
>>
>> So, I don't think I've seen this thread discussed on the Vanagon list
>> so far, so have at it boys and girls!! Would be great if it did work.
>>
>> DM&FS
>>
>> Link provided by the Aussie
>>
>> http://www.couplertec.com.au/index.html
>>
>
>
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