Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:34:04 -0700
Reply-To: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
In-Reply-To: <49B89567.4060501@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
They made ones that bolt to the bottom of your crankcase Rocky - I sorta
remember a Listee selling one here a while back. The plug is accessible
through the license hatch.
Of course you were a Southern Californian then and didn't care........
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Rocket J Squirrel <
camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 3/11/2009 8:34 PM Courtney Hook wrote:
>
> > Good God man! You're in Bend, and don't know about block heaters?? What
> > is this world coming to?? :-)
>
> I-I dunno . . . I wuz just askin . . .
>
>
> > They come in different flavors, but essentially are a inline heater that
> > goes into the cooling either via a heater hose or similar way, and get
> > plugged into an outlet.
>
> Wait, what? Seriously? You cut into some radiator or heater line on the
> van and strap in some crappy Pep Boys $35 piece of cr#p that packs a
> counterfeit UL label and hope that that piece of cr#p won't spring a leak
> or catch on fire sometime in the middle of the night when you're in total
> REM sleep?
>
> You're gaming me, aren't you?
>
> And when driving, does the metal power inlet bounce at the end of its cord
> on the asphalt, sending up showers of sparks?
>
> Where can one find one of those heaters that is set up for Vanagon hose
> diameters and mounting points. And comes with recommendations from folk on
> this list and we'll talk.
>
> --
> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
> Bend, OR
> KG6RCR
>
>
>
> On 3/11/2009 8:34 PM Courtney Hook wrote:
>
> Good God man! You're in Bend, and don't know about block heaters?? What is
>> this world coming to?? :-)
>> They come in different flavors, but essentially are a inline heater that
>> goes into the cooling either via a heater hose or similar way, and get
>> plugged into an outlet. It keeps your coolant warm/hot, and when you fire
>> up
>> the beast in the morning, the coolant is already hot, and ready to warm
>> you're toasty feet. They also keep the engine alive in those lovely -45
>> mornings up here in B.C. I remember always checking under my hood before
>> firing up the truck because a fine collection of cats, rats, coons,
>> squirrels etc would think a nice warm engine block was pretty good when
>> the
>> mercury went sub zero. :-)
>> Courtney
>> (On balmy Vancouver Island)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>>
>>
>> So how does one use a block heater? What is this mystical device?
>>> --
>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>> Bend, OR
>>> KG6RCR
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/11/2009 8:04 PM Don Hundt wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>> You might think about finding a block heater for your van. I have a
>>>> diesel
>>>> dodge pickup that has about 4 gallons of coolant in it, lots of fluid to
>>>> heat up. Blows warm in just a couple minutes after being plugged in for
>>>> a
>>>> few hours, even on the coldest Central Oregon mornings.
>>>> Don
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>>>>> ......even
>>>>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>>>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps )
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> it's very cold.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ah -- a lesson learned. Keep the heater slider off until there's at
>>>>> least
>>>>> some activity visible on the ol' temp gauge.
>>>>>
>>>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really
>>>>>> rough
>>>>>> on a waterboxer.
>>>>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5
>>>>>> miles,
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold
>>>>>> temps.........like
>>>>>> 20
>>>>>> degrees F and below.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Short trips are about all I'm taking with Mellow Yellow right now. If
>>>>> the
>>>>> weather or sunlight situation are not suitable for cycling, I takee the
>>>>> Vanagon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and
>>>>>> plug
>>>>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the
>>>>>> engine
>>>>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater
>>>>>> circuit
>>>>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sigh. One can dream, no?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>>>> Bend, OR
>>>>> KG6RCR
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> the stock temp gauge sender is pretty close to the thermostat.
>>>>>> so when that comes off the peg...........
>>>>>> it's starting to close off the bypass circuit flow in the engine, and
>>>>>> starting to send coolant toward the radiator.
>>>>>> And the sender shows the temp of the radiator circuit coolant
>>>>>> .........
>>>>>> they'd want to read the hottest coolant as it comes out of the engine.
>>>>>> < shoot, come to think of it........
>>>>>> has anyone ever bothered to figure out if a water boxer thermostat is
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> return side from the radiator , or on the 'feed to the radiator' side.
>>>>>> Most
>>>>>> newer engines have the t-stat on the return side to the engine........
>>>>>> like all vw inline fours gas and diesel since the 1975 Rabbit, like
>>>>>> Subaru
>>>>>> engines etc. I never bother to check that out )
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thermostat in a waterboxer engine is a 'two door' thermostat
>>>>>> ........two cirucits ............one is 'bypass'. around and around
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> the engine.......
>>>>>> bypassing the radiator circuit. The other circuit is the radiator
>>>>>> circuit.
>>>>>> The t-stat switches gradually over from one circuit to the other. The
>>>>>> Heater
>>>>>> circuit is something else of course, and not termostated in any way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That might even take 10 minutes...........as as it blends from the
>>>>>> bypass
>>>>>> circuit to the radiator circuit.
>>>>>> so the change over is gradual. My guess is that at 25 % gauge
>>>>>> defelction
>>>>>> (
>>>>>> halfway from zero reading to mid-defliction, by the LED ) is about
>>>>>> half
>>>>>> split between bybass circuit, and radiator circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You won't see 'full thermostated' temp at the radiator until after
>>>>>> it's
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> in the radiator only portion for a short while. Like fully up to temp,
>>>>>> plus
>>>>>> a few more minutes, depending on rpm ( water pump speed ) . In town
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> lower speeds, lower load, it takes longer to get fully up to temp.
>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>>>>> ......even
>>>>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>>>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold temps )
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> it's very cold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the best deal is a new german, OE quaility thermostat in the higher of
>>>>>> two
>>>>>> temps offered. Warmer is better, cooler is not.
>>>>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is really
>>>>>> rough
>>>>>> on a waterboxer.
>>>>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5
>>>>>> miles,
>>>>>> turn
>>>>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold
>>>>>> temps.........like
>>>>>> 20
>>>>>> degrees F and below.
>>>>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric heater out
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of my van and
>>>>>> plug
>>>>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the
>>>>>> engine
>>>>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the heater
>>>>>> circuit
>>>>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> scott
>>>>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:57 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>>>>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's the easy way to tell whether the thermostat stays properly
>>>>>>>> shut
>>>>>>>> until the engine reaches temperature? I was thinking of starting the
>>>>>>>> engine, take the temp of the radiator with an infrared thermometer,
>>>>>>>> watching the temp gauge, and, according to my theory, when the gauge
>>>>>>>> starts to indicate operating temperature the radiator should
>>>>>>>> suddenly
>>>>>>>> start warming up. That should work, right?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Short of removing the thermostat, boiling it in a pot of water and
>>>>>>> watching/measuring with a thermometer, I would suggest aiming your IR
>>>>>>> gun at the thermostat housing. See when the temp goes up there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would imaging that measuring at the rad would take longer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>>>>> signature database 3929 (20090311) __________
>>>>>
>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
--
Jake
1984 Vanagon GL
1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
Crescent Beach, BC
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
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