Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 23:25:32 -0500
Reply-To: Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@MTS.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff Palmer <jpalmer@MTS.NET>
Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
In-Reply-To: <92B5DF59AB1648599B18788C3C716DF3@MAINCOMPUTER>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
My understanding was a block heater heats the coolant via the block.
Can you have a block heater on an aircooled?
Jeff
On 11-Mar-09, at 10:58 PM, Courtney Hook wrote:
> There used to be block heaters available for Bay Window vans
> (aircooled)
> that went into the drain plate. I think I still have one laying around
> somewhere. IF the vanagon is watercooled, you could put an inline
> hose type
> heater into one of the rad hoses.
> Courtney
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Palmer" <jpalmer@mts.net>
> To: "Courtney Hook" <courtneyhook@SHAW.CA>
> Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to speed
>
>
>> I don't think you can get a block heater for a Vanagon. I think
>> you need
>> an oil pan heater, non? That's what I've always used.
>>
>> Jeff in Winnipeg
>>
>> On 11-Mar-09, at 10:34 PM, Courtney Hook wrote:
>>
>>> Good God man! You're in Bend, and don't know about block
>>> heaters?? What
>>> is
>>> this world coming to?? :-)
>>> They come in different flavors, but essentially are a inline
>>> heater that
>>> goes into the cooling either via a heater hose or similar way, and
>>> get
>>> plugged into an outlet. It keeps your coolant warm/hot, and when you
>>> fire up
>>> the beast in the morning, the coolant is already hot, and ready
>>> to warm
>>> you're toasty feet. They also keep the engine alive in those
>>> lovely -45
>>> mornings up here in B.C. I remember always checking under my hood
>>> before
>>> firing up the truck because a fine collection of cats, rats, coons,
>>> squirrels etc would think a nice warm engine block was pretty
>>> good when
>>> the
>>> mercury went sub zero. :-)
>>> Courtney
>>> (On balmy Vancouver Island)
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to
>>> speed
>>>
>>>
>>>> So how does one use a block heater? What is this mystical device?
>>>> --
>>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>>> Bend, OR
>>>> KG6RCR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/11/2009 8:04 PM Don Hundt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>> You might think about finding a block heater for your van. I
>>>>> have a
>>>>> diesel
>>>>> dodge pickup that has about 4 gallons of coolant in it, lots of
>>>>> fluid
>>>>> to
>>>>> heat up. Blows warm in just a couple minutes after being
>>>>> plugged in
>>>>> for a
>>>>> few hours, even on the coldest Central Oregon mornings.
>>>>> Don
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
>>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up
>>>>> to speed
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>>>>>> ......even
>>>>>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>>>>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold
>>>>>>> temps )
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> it's very cold.
>>>>>> Ah -- a lesson learned. Keep the heater slider off until
>>>>>> there's at
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> some activity visible on the ol' temp gauge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> rough
>>>>>>> on a waterboxer.
>>>>>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5
>>>>>>> miles,
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold
>>>>>>> temps.........like
>>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>> degrees F and below.
>>>>>> Short trips are about all I'm taking with Mellow Yellow right
>>>>>> now. If
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> weather or sunlight situation are not suitable for cycling, I
>>>>>> takee
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Vanagon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric
>>>>>>> heater
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of
>>>>>>> my van
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> plug
>>>>>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the
>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the
>>>>>>> heater
>>>>>>> circuit
>>>>>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>>>>>> Sigh. One can dream, no?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mike "Rocket J Squirrel" Elliott
>>>>>> 84 Westfalia: Mellow Yellow ("The Electrical Banana")
>>>>>> 74 Utility Trailer. Ladybug Trailer, Inc., San Juan Capistrano
>>>>>> Bend, OR
>>>>>> KG6RCR
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/11/2009 2:51 PM Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the stock temp gauge sender is pretty close to the thermostat.
>>>>>>> so when that comes off the peg...........
>>>>>>> it's starting to close off the bypass circuit flow in the
>>>>>>> engine,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> starting to send coolant toward the radiator.
>>>>>>> And the sender shows the temp of the radiator circuit coolant
>>>>>>> .........
>>>>>>> they'd want to read the hottest coolant as it comes out of the
>>>>>>> engine.
>>>>>>> < shoot, come to think of it........
>>>>>>> has anyone ever bothered to figure out if a water boxer
>>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> return side from the radiator , or on the 'feed to the radiator'
>>>>>>> side.
>>>>>>> Most
>>>>>>> newer engines have the t-stat on the return side to the
>>>>>>> engine........
>>>>>>> like all vw inline fours gas and diesel since the 1975
>>>>>>> Rabbit, like
>>>>>>> Subaru
>>>>>>> engines etc. I never bother to check that out )
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thermostat in a waterboxer engine is a 'two door'
>>>>>>> thermostat
>>>>>>> ........two cirucits ............one is 'bypass'. around and
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> the engine.......
>>>>>>> bypassing the radiator circuit. The other circuit is the
>>>>>>> radiator
>>>>>>> circuit.
>>>>>>> The t-stat switches gradually over from one circuit to the
>>>>>>> other.
>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>> Heater
>>>>>>> circuit is something else of course, and not termostated in
>>>>>>> any way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That might even take 10 minutes...........as as it blends from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bypass
>>>>>>> circuit to the radiator circuit.
>>>>>>> so the change over is gradual. My guess is that at 25 % gauge
>>>>>>> defelction
>>>>>>> (
>>>>>>> halfway from zero reading to mid-defliction, by the LED ) is
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>> split between bybass circuit, and radiator circuit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You won't see 'full thermostated' temp at the radiator until
>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> in the radiator only portion for a short while. Like fully up to
>>>>>>> temp,
>>>>>>> plus
>>>>>>> a few more minutes, depending on rpm ( water pump speed ) .
>>>>>>> In town
>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> lower speeds, lower load, it takes longer to get fully up to
>>>>>>> temp.
>>>>>>> Sometimes
>>>>>>> it won't even get up to full temp, in town, at low load and rpm
>>>>>>> ......even
>>>>>>> with a good new german t-stat IF ..........
>>>>>>> you have the heater on from the begging ( a bad thing in cold
>>>>>>> temps )
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> it's very cold.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the best deal is a new german, OE quaility thermostat in the
>>>>>>> higher
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> temps offered. Warmer is better, cooler is not.
>>>>>>> And shortish in town trips in very cold temps..............is
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> rough
>>>>>>> on a waterboxer.
>>>>>>> It would bee worth it to cruise out of town on the highway for 5
>>>>>>> miles,
>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>> around, then go about your town errands, in very cold
>>>>>>> temps.........like
>>>>>>> 20
>>>>>>> degrees F and below.
>>>>>>> I just pulled this inline 110Volt AC 'house power' electric
>>>>>>> heater
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> parts van of mine. I gotta put that in my heater circuit of
>>>>>>> my van
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> plug
>>>>>>> it in overnight while it's still cold. Sure would be nice if the
>>>>>>> engine
>>>>>>> coolant was partially warmed up, and all the coolant in the
>>>>>>> heater
>>>>>>> circuit
>>>>>>> was already warm, soon as I start 'er up !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> scott
>>>>>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "neil N" <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:57 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Takes a darn long time for the heater to come up to
>>>>>>> speed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Rocket J Squirrel
>>>>>>>> <camping.elliott@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What's the easy way to tell whether the thermostat stays
>>>>>>>>> properly
>>>>>>>>> shut
>>>>>>>>> until the engine reaches temperature? I was thinking of
>>>>>>>>> starting
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> engine, take the temp of the radiator with an infrared
>>>>>>>>> thermometer,
>>>>>>>>> watching the temp gauge, and, according to my theory, when the
>>>>>>>>> gauge
>>>>>>>>> starts to indicate operating temperature the radiator should
>>>>>>>>> suddenly
>>>>>>>>> start warming up. That should work, right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Short of removing the thermostat, boiling it in a pot of
>>>>>>>> water and
>>>>>>>> watching/measuring with a thermometer, I would suggest
>>>>>>>> aiming your
>>>>>>>> IR
>>>>>>>> gun at the thermostat housing. See when the temp goes up there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would imaging that measuring at the rad would take longer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Neil Nicholson '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
>>>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of
>>>>>> virus
>>>>>> signature database 3929 (20090311) __________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
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