Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 16:14:12 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Voltage Drop, 4 feet extra, 4 gauge wire
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I don't think I'd ever add that much weight that far forward in the van.
Just increases understeer and increases steering effort, and reduces rear
traction.
In slippery conditions 2WD vanagons are at somewhat of a disadvantage
rear-traction-wise anyway ....
as you add significant weight toward the front, it just makes it worse.
I thought it was very well known to always undo the negative battery cable
first, then remove batteries or whatever,
and always connect neg batt cable last, going back together. That way the
positive terminal is never a 'hot' dangerous thing.
sounds like you have it thoroughly thought out ..........and like thinking
out load here............that's cool.
re "Since this is DC, is that going to make a terrible difference? "
in DC you always need a big enough conductor. I believe resistance is
proportional to conductor size..........i.e. 'smaller is worse, larger is
better.'
If not for cost and weight.........bigger wires or cables are always better
in DC, I believe.
Also.......a rear battery location allows for shorter wire or cable runs
from the charging source..........at least as far as the alternator in is
concerned.
I have not done it myself, but some people swear by several smaller
batteries.....
electric wheel chair batteries , wired in parallel.
those would be a lot easier to located in a rear seat area.
Thought I had the site, but couldn't find it now............they're small,
and optima-type..........absorbed gas matt batteries I think. A bunch of
those wired in parallel.
If you can find a weekender or westy rear seat............those seat bottoms
open very nicely exactly like a large trunk, and putting stuff in and out is
very easy.
The Z bed set up is hard to use that way, I agree.
and the rear seats before that, where the seat bottom doesn't move.....those
are even more of a pain to deal with - that's what Adventuewagons
have......and you're sliding batteries in under the seat, rather than
lifting the seat bottom up..........and the opening is not that tall, so
kind of a bother.
in terms of vehicle dynamics and handling response, I would suggest not
adding 225 lbs to the front of the floor area, that's for sure.
Scott
turbovans
----- Original Message -----
From: "M'obeechi" <obeechi@RUNBOX.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:01 PM
Subject: Voltage Drop, 4 feet extra, 4 gauge wire
I have batteries under the rear seat. These are bigger than the batteries
that were under the front seats. Since I have a Carat, the area under the
rear seat really isn't ideal. It's too easy to create a circuit with a
wrench with the positive of a battery and the metal of the seat frame.
Removing and reinstalling batteries is also awkward, as you have to tip the
battery as you do so, and be extra careful not to touch the positive
terminals to the metal of the seat frame. You can wrap the terminals with
electric tape, but we all know that's not always going to happen, right?
So, now I'm thinking I'd rather have three group 31 batteries, the Platinum
from Sears (which are better rated and have a better warranty than the best
Optimas, i.e. their the 31's, Yellow Commercial, and Blue Marine D31M).
These Sears batteries could be placed immediately behind the front seats,
where formerly there were Carat midseats (the black connecting part can be
removed, and the holes and screws re-used for ground connections). Two
batteries could be wired in parallel, and the third could serve as a
starting / engine battery. All three could placed in a box that is basically
a mid-bench seat, inside this bench seat, in an isolated chamber, on ground
level, could be inverters, (more aft than the batteries) with the
recommended 3 inches of clearance on all sides, save the belly. Vent holes
for the battery chamber could be drilled on both sides (not the middle,
because of the gas tank...), and fuse boxes can be placed on either end,
screwed into the front seats metal base (at the rear) - just lower the
exterior vapor tanks when drilling the holes.
Right now, the batteries I currently use under the rear seat, are wired with
4 gauge wire. I seem to remember the stock wire being even thicker, was it 2
gauge? In any event, the new location for the batteries will need another
four feet of wire for the starting battery. Since this is DC, is that going
to make a terrible difference? Will I need to use heavier gauge wire? I
suppose I could wire in two 4 gauge wires between the engine and the
starting battery.
It does seem that the engine has run better with the bigger batteries and
shorter wire length.
My new wire path is going to be from the engine, through the holes meant for
the rear heater (long since removed) and then wrapped alongside the driver
side at the floor in the mid area - I can cut the cork carpet under-padding
alongside the driver side wall to allow for the wire to have a defined and
hidden path in the mid area, and that would help the wire to stay in place
(I'm talking the back to front direction, in the mid area).
At least I wouldn't have to worry about one side of the van being heavier
(i.e. the driver or passenger side). These batteries are 75 lbs each, so
that's 225lbs, and assuming the hatch area might be loaded up with luggage,
and passengers, there would still be some weight distributed hopefully even
enough...
With those two monster batteries wired in parallel and acting as house
batteries, that should give me plenty of surge reserve.
BTW, the column between the front door and the sliding door, is an excellent
corridor for routing a solar panel's wires from the roof - a lot easier than
the route above the sliding door, which is far too complex, and with the
batteries in this new location, the solar panel wires don't have to be as
long (the rear space is for ladders or cargo boxes, which is why I need to
use the front for the solar panel).
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