Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:04:25 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?
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re 'up at the Air Base' Which USAF Air Base ( or otherwise ) would that be.
love the 'unca Shuga' thing.,
I value my old fashioned books like the one in your slide show too.
a certain sincerity combined with relative simplicity. even a quality
'innocence' is present.
Like they really wanted you to get it, when the wrote and illustrated that
book.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John C..." <Trvlr2001@COMCAST.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Are Today's Young People Mechanical Nitwits?
> Hi Jake
>
> Hey Happy Birthday Vanagon Buddy !!!
>
> As a Machinist for the past 40 + years,
> I have seen a lot of changes too !!!
> And as has been stated in various earlier posts
> Most of the machinists nowadays are from south of the border.
> And the field has Replaced Skill and Wits;
> With Software...
> It's All CNC now days!
> If I wasn't for the fact that I landed a job with Unca Shuga,
> I would have gone bankrupt years ago!
> ( came close in the 2000 market though ) !!!
> ( saw my $35 stocks drop to 35 Cents )!!!! ;o)
> And, even up at the Air Base,
> I was probably one of the few that could hand cut a thread on a lathe !!!
> Everyone else just used dies ( no brag! just fact :o)
>
> Anywho, back to my point ! :o)
>
> As a Total DIY 'er,
>
> Of all of the books in my library
>
> This is probably my Favorite:
>
> http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=wua8um1.pwfm3v5&x=0&y=-b1h7m3&localeid=en_US
>
> Gracias a Dios es Viernes!
>
> John C...
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Jake de Villiers <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
>
>> Good points Loren, and a great quote!
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Loren Busch wrote:
>>
>> > This got very long, hit delete if in a hurry this morning....
>> >
>> > I've been following this thread (that started yesterday) with great
>> > interest. I decided to wait till Friday to jump in because of the
>> > little
>> > Vanagon content but don't take that wrong, I think the subject and the
>> > thread that has evolved is pertinent to our interests and endeavors.
>> >
>> > So, why can some of us understand the working of a motor vehicle and
>> > even
>> > work on them while others don't and can't? I think just about
>> > everything
>> > that I understand about the past (I just turned 69) and the current
>> > society
>> > and maybe even the future has already been said in this thread by the
>> > time
>> > I'm writing this. But I want to emphasize several points that have been
>> > made, especially about how our fathers and grandfathers saw things and
>> > dealt
>> > with them and how that affects us today.
>> >
>> > The fathers and the grandfathers of many on this list were raised in
>> > what
>> > was essentially a rural America, either on a farm or in a farm town and
>> > community. Especially in the West. And they had lived through the Great
>> > Depression where you only survived if you could do it yourself and they
>> > came
>> > out of the depression with a strong sense of how important every penny
>> > could
>> > be. Before WW2 the majority of the population of the US was not in the
>> > cities, it was rural. There were no 'suburbs', especially out West. And
>> > that meant you did it yourself. That's the way people survived. And
>> > when
>> > it came to motor vehicles we were talking Ford and Chevy and John
>> > Deere.
>> > And
>> > they were very basic machines. The major (and I mean major)
>> > improvements
>> > in
>> > wheels, tires, suspension, steering, engines and transmissions were
>> > things
>> > of the '50's and later. A couple of years ago I walked into a friends
>> > auto
>> > repair shop and there sat a '39 Pontiac (I believe it was a Pontiac,
>> > could
>> > have been a Packard, not important) that my friend maintained for a
>> > local
>> > collector. Front suspension was King Pins, no ball joints, leaf springs
>> > and
>> > no shock absorbers!! And a flat head straight 8 under the hood. Since
>> > virtually every male had grown up with tools in his hands maintaining
>> > such
>> > vehicles was second nature to the original owners. Now move ahead
>> > nearly 70
>> > years and think about the complexity of the vehicles today. But also
>> > think
>> > about what has been gained in performance and durability. Even in the
>> > 1960's a car with 50,000 miles on it was suspect but today we think
>> > nothing
>> > of driving vehicles with over 100,000 miles on them. And since I just
>> > mentioned the '60's, let me make some comments on the so called 'Golden
>> > Age'
>> > of the muscle car. In 1968 I spent most of that year selling cars for a
>> > Chrysler-Plymouth (RIP) dealer. I had a chance to drive, at least once,
>> > virtually every muscle car of the time. They had power but they were,
>> > in
>> > general, pigs to drive. Sure they could do 120 mph on the straight but
>> > for
>> > God sake don't try to go around a curve at 60 or even change lanes
>> > above
>> > 80.
>> > The suspensions on virtually all were way, way under engineered for the
>> > power they had. For those that never had the experience imagine a
>> > Vanagon
>> > with worn shocks, factory springs and passenger tires. That's what most
>> > of
>> > those Muscle Cars felt like from the factory.
>> >
>> > When I was growing up most of the fathers in the neighborhood (good
>> > upscale
>> > middle class) were in the 'trades' one way or another. If they weren't
>> > carpenters or plumbers or such they had been at one time in their lives
>> > and
>> > had moved on to a related job. They either used tools for a living or
>> > their
>> > customers and clients did. My father was a machinist, all his life. I
>> > grew
>> > up in a machine shop, either where he worked or in our basement and
>> > garage.
>> > Big lathe, small mill, big drill press, welding equipment, and tools,
>> > tools,
>> > tools. The rule was simple, use the right tool for the job. If you
>> > don't
>> > have the right tool, make it. Only if you don't have it or can't make
>> > it do
>> > you go out and buy it (see references above to Great Depression and
>> > living
>> > on a farm) but, my dad hated woodwork. I don't know why but he hated
>> > doing
>> > any carpentry. I guess I inherited (or got by osmosis) his mechanical
>> > skills. If it's mechanical I've never been afraid of it. Especially if
>> > made of metal. When younger I'd tackle anything, tear it down, fix it,
>> > and
>> > put it back together. And that included my cars. But then I reached a
>> > point
>> > in later life where I was able to make a trade, my money for a
>> > mechanics
>> > time. My time with my family was worth more to me than having those
>> > dollars
>> > in my pocket. So I quit doing my own wrenching. And that is the
>> > decision
>> > that many in the last couple of generations have made. In the quite
>> > affluent society that has evolved in the US over the last 50 years
>> > fewer
>> > and
>> > fewer people have fathers that take a tool box to work. And the trade
>> > of
>> > dollars for time has become the norm; we go to specialists for most
>> > things
>> > today. I still do the basics and have done a lot of mods to my Westy
>> > but
>> > any
>> > real work goes to a mechanic. And yes, I pay close attention to Larry
>> > Chases Repair Shop Reviews.
>> >
>> > So, should the younger generation learn how a motor vehicle works?
>> > Absolutely. Should they understand the basics of maintenance?
>> > Absolutely. Should
>> > they learn to use basic tools? Yes, yes yes. Should they be doing
>> > engine
>> > swaps? Now that is another level of involvement, a choice to be made by
>> > the
>> > individual. But they should have enough knowledge to understand what is
>> > involved.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The quote below sums it up for me, from the famous Lazarus Long (though
>> > we
>> > should add "Troubleshoot a Vanagon FI System" to the list.)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
>> > butcher
>> > a
>> > hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts,
>> > build
>> > a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders,
>> > cooperate,
>> > act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure,
>> > program a
>> > computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
>> > Specialization is for insects.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jake
>> 1984 Vanagon GL
>> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>> Crescent Beach, BC
>> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
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