Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 17:27:02 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Now My Jetta conversion won't start --- :^( --- (longish)
In-Reply-To: <485836CD.2050705@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Scott.
No I didn't check for spark. It started fine that day. I didn't change
anything to affect spark, so looked elsewhere.
In my email I mention the new parts being put in before problem. (old
parts worn) With the exception of the fuel filter, I didn't "throw"
stuff at the Vanagon, though I tossed in a fuel filter as looking in
the old one, I saw black. Turns out that's normal for this type of
filter. I didn't know that.
I mentioned too that the fuel was flowing well and that timing is
correct. Anyhow.....
I just started it again after trying to hook up the MIL (previously
called it "MAL" by mistake!) It fired right up cold. Exhaust was
white-ish (which went away), and smelled rich. Same old
missing/bogging at 1/4 throttle with uneven idle (hunting)
Disconnecting the HO2 sensor made no difference to missing at 1/4
throttle (no tach hooked up).
I'll read your email more closely later. Gotta get ready for work!
Thanks for the pointers and explaining more about the ECU. I thought
maybe the engine was in "limp" mode or some such.
It may be that it's the way I wired the HO2 sensor relay. Both the HO2
sensor and relay are new. (didn't grab them from the donor when i had
the chance!)
Thanks!
Neil.
On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Scott Daniel - Shazam
<scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> Neil,
> did i miss it ? or do I not see where you actaully CHECKED that their is
> spark
> or that there is fuel pressure .
>
> I have to say this about 400 times -
> replacing tune up parts is NOT how to proceed for a no start.
> it's how you INTRODUCE more problems !!
>
> Sure, some parts you'll 'just try another one' - say air mass meter.
> Remeber reading about a guy on here about 4 months ago - a week's worth of
> 50 postings and replies, and in the end, he hadn't bolted his distrubutor
> timing clamp down properly !
>
> so *inspect, diagnose, check'....................and 'bypass and subsitute'
> * !!
>
> for example, just pour some fresh gas down the throat - if it gee VROOOM !
> you know about 5 things are working right and that one isn't, and you know
> EXACTLY what to work on !
>
>
> I would never ever dream of touching the timing belt on a junkyard running
> engine until AFTER it was running properly in the new home - i.e. your van !
> I've read of about 100 cases of Subaruvanagon people getting their T-belts
> off in a pre-installation t-belt job.
> it happens.
>
> and ............the VERY FIRST RULE ???....................
> CHECK THE BASICS , CHECK THE BASICS.
>
> I would love to read you saying ...........
> there is fat spark to each spark plug.
> Ignitioin timing is in the ball park at least.
> Timing marks on t-belt line up perfectly.
> There is good compression.
> Fuel is fresh, and fuel pressure is good.
>
>
> if you can get codes via the CEL ( mal ) ...........definitely do that.
> but DO NOT just run out and buy the part if it flags a component or device
> !!
>
> generally speaking, having codes stored in the ECU should not in itself,
> cause a no-start.
> The only exception I can imagine is if it had say something off that could
> cause severe damgage if the engine did start - I don't know if it is, but
> say if it was an interference engine, and the ECU sees the t-belt off by a
> mile say ( though there isn't any cam position sensor unless it's a
> distrubutor mounted on the end of the camshaft ) .........so the ECU might
> not even know that.
>
> AND........seriously.........honest, german engineers only design things to
> 'be right.' So i seriously doubt in a million years that they'd think ahead
> enough to prevent the engine from being able to start if it was going to
> hurt itself.
>
> here's a perfect example of that very german mindset - about designing
> things for only when they are right , or in the case , newish.
> A waterboxer engine has a combination studs with nuts and bolts , holding
> the exhaust pipes to the heads.
> 8 fasteners in all.
> Years later, after hundreds of heat/cool cycles, and god knows what all rust
> and road salt - the nuts or easy to get off the studs - just heat them red
> hod with a torch etc............
> BUT.............the 'other four'.............the bolts that screw nearly 2
> inches deep into the heads......
> those are just hell to get out of the heads sometimes without breaking them
> off in the head.
> if you are lucky - the bolt head will break off, and after the exahust pipes
> are out of the way, at least you have something you can still grab with a
> vice grips or whatever.
>
> granted,. it's more work to replace a exh. port gasket, or sneak a head out
> between the exhaut pipes with studs instead of bolts into the
> heads..........but it's not fun at all doing 'dental work' - drilling and
> taping deep into a head to repair a broken off bolt.
>
> Like a race car - it could/should be made EASY to work on. If I even get to
> be King, all car engineers will be required to work on cars full time for 10
> years in the field, in the trenches of car shops around the world, before
> they are allowed to design anything.,
>
> the get so caught up in the 'modulus of elasticity' of a material, or
> whatever, and completely miss it when it comes to just using or working on
> what they designed.
>
> if I had but 2 cents for all the dumb things I've seen designed on cars -
> I'd be richer than B. Gates. ( i mean, WHY would you hide a trans filler
> plug behind the shift linkage ?????? ! - just to piss of the techs
> working on it ? )
>
> And you can bet that all my conversion work is - super easy to work on, all
> standard fastners, etc. The exhaust systems I build on TD vanagons, and on
> Subaru conversions - they come right off in about 15 minutes with about 15
> bolts. and they don't crack or break or anything like that either.
>
> I never forget it the second I heard a friend make a comment about racing
> motorcycles will used to built, withracing custom frames even - he said he
> was going to built one with all nuts & bolts for fasteners. Not as elegant,
> or light weight - but by golly, SO easy to deal with or replace !
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> il N wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> This is regarding an OBD1 ABA Motronic 2.9 stock 2.0 Jetta engine I
> installed in my Westy.
>
> The ECU and wiring harness are from an automatic Jetta. Auto tranny
> TCM (trans. control module) NOT present. TB is from a *manual* tranny
> engine.
>
> I have a TB from an automatic Jetta. (2 throttle position sensors) and
> can swap it in.
>
> I have yet to hook up the OBD interface, but here's what's happening.
>
> It used to start, idle, but bog with throttle opened slowly to 1/3
> way. After a 30 sec. - few minute run, I would shut if off and try to
> restart. It would spin, "catch" a little, and sometimes start. Next
> day, it would start. Yesterday same thing, but eventually no firing,
> (catching) and no start.
>
> I replaced rotor, cap, plugs, timing belt (timing ok) well before
> yesterday. Got fresh gas half way through yesterdays trials, and
> replaced the fuel filter.
>
> Cleaned the TB, MAF, IAC, (and tried another IAC), double checked
> electrical connections. Can't find any vacuum leaks. Fuel is pumping.
> FP hotwired made no difference. Power gets to power supply relay, and
> to 12V side of the coil.
>
> I have not checked for spark yet, but checked one of the plugs. It was
> pretty black. The exhaust (to an uneducated nose) might be smelling
> rich. I can't test for power to the HOS2 sensor as engine needs to be
> running.
>
> I'll connect the OBD but will be relying on light flashes from the
> "Mal" light (aka the CEL). I don't have a VAG-COM unit.
>
> Any suggestions as to why it won't start?
>
> Does the ECU need to be cleared of error codes? i.e. would error codes
> cause a no start?
>
>
> Thanks much for any direction.
>
> --
> Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
>
>
>
--
Neil Nicholson '81 JettaWesty "Jaco
http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
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