Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:40:39 -0400
Reply-To: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mike <mbucchino@CHARTER.NET>
Subject: Re: Vanagon/Jetta timing issue. Use RPM sensor hole to find #1
TDC mark?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I suppose a rubber band or a couple wraps of electrical tape around the
trigger would accomplish the same thing.......
Mike B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jake de Villiers" <crescentbeachguitar@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: Vanagon/Jetta timing issue. Use RPM sensor hole to find #1 TDC
mark?
> If I wasn't backed up to the eyeballs I'd come over and turn the key for
> you.
>
> My timing light has an 'always on' setting that's pretty useful. Point it
> at the ceiling of the van and go crank - it flashes on the ceiling. :)
>
> I've got a customer coming at 10:00 am and my mom's water heater is
> leaking
> (!) but I'll try and give you a call.
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2008 at 8:30 AM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jake.
>>
>> One of the "to do" things was to get a remote starter.
>>
>> I'll check for spark.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Jake de Villiers
>> <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Do you have spark? Maybe the best thing your timing light can do for
>> you
>> > is determine whether you have spark or not. If its not making a spark
>> > there's no point in chasing down whether the ignition or valve timing
>> > is
>> > right or not.
>> >
>> > Step back and check for spark.
>> >
>> > If that's good, pour some gas in the manifold and see if it kicks.
>> >
>> > If there's no spark, get back to us! :)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:31 PM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hey Jake.
>> > >
>> > > Yah that was one of the first things I did when checking for TDC.
>> > > Feeling for air coming out of spark plug hole. I also used a wood
>> > > dowel to fine tune. There is also a mark on the crank pulley that
>> > > lines up with a stationary mark on the timing belt cover. This
>> > > indicates TDC.
>> > >
>> > > Here's what I did to the engine prior to install:
>> > >
>> > > replaced timing belt, serp belt, water pump, switched to a non -
>> > > AC/PS
>> > > setup in the process, (used a VR6 coolant pump pulley), rotor, cap,
>> > > plugs, some gaskets/o-rings etc.
>> > >
>> > > I removed the distributor to inspect it.
>> > >
>> > > As for the timing belt, I did make marks on the cam, but wasn't
>> > > certain about my markings (or possibly lack thereof) and had doubts
>> > > about timing, so did it by the book. I installed the distributor once
>> > > cam/crank were timed together, by lining up the rotor with the #1
>> > > mark, and installed it. When I rotate it by hand everything stays
>> > > lined up.
>> > >
>> > > I never saw the engine run.
>> > >
>> > > One thing I may still be confused about, is the intermediate shaft
>> > > and
>> > > its' role in things. It drives the distributor, but AFAIK, if
>> > > distributor not installed, it doesn't need to be in any special
>> > > position in relation to the cam, crank and distributor.
>> > >
>> > > There are likely some other bugs keeping this thing from running, but
>> > > given the way it sounds when turning it over, it sure sounds like
>> > > it's
>> > > timed incorrectly.
>> > >
>> > > I have heard that sound before! :)
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Neil.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Jake de Villiers
>> > > <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > Just because the piston's at the top of its stroke doesn't mean its
>> TDC.
>> > > > :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Pull the #1 plug and turn the motor over by hand with your thumb
>> over
>> > the
>> > > > spark plug hole and you'll find TDC on the compression stroke.
>> > > > Fine
>> > tune
>> > > > with your stick if you prefer.
>> > > >
>> > > > Did you remove the distributor from the engine for some reason? If
>> the
>> > > > motor was running fine before you swapped it over, the timing's
>> close
>> > enough
>> > > > to get you started. Just clip your timing light on the #1 lead,
>> point
>> > the
>> > > > light at the mark and crank away.
>> > > >
>> > > > Pour some gas down its little throat and crank again.
>> > > > Is there something you're not telling us?
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:00 PM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Thanks for the reply Mark.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > So ok......
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If I'm understanding this correctly, as long as #1 is at the top
>> of
>> > > > > its' stroke, whether or not it is an beginning its' exhaust or
>> > > > > compression stroke, is determined by how I set the cam?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > FWIW, I'm treating this engine as if the cam, intermediate shaft,
>> > > > > crank and distributor are out of sync with each other.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Currently it's timed so when #1 is at TDC, the cam is at its'
>> correct
>> > > > > mark, and the distributor is at #1 mark. I confirmed TDC using
>> wood
>> > > > > dowel in spark plug hole. Crank pulley mark lines up with mark on
>> > > > > plastic timing belt cover.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But.......
>> > > > >
>> > > > > In Bentley it says that if the RPM sensor is faulty, the engine
>> won't
>> > > > > start. I'm not assuming it's faulty, but my concern is that if
>> > > > > (ignoring cam now) I have #1 set to the "exhaust" stroke in
>> relation
>> > > > > to the gap on the crank gear, that this may be fouling up the RPM
>> > > > > sensor, therefore keeping the engine from starting.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Neil.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Mark Drillock
>> > <drillock@earthlink.net>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > You have a 4 stroke engine, also called a 4 cycle. (I don't
>> > > > > > mean
>> 4
>> > cyl
>> > > > > > though yours is that too)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > With a 4 stroke engine it takes 2 complete revolutions of the
>> crank
>> > to
>> > > > > > complete a full cycle. With a 4 cylinder 4 cycle that means the
>> > crank
>> > > > timing
>> > > > > > mark will line up for 2 different cylinders at TDC at the same
>> time.
>> > One
>> > > > > > will be lined up in its compression stroke TDC and the other
>> will at
>> > the
>> > > > > > same time be lined up for its exhaust stroke TDC.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The firing order of the VW inline engine is 1-3-4-2. That
>> > > > > > means
>> > that
>> > > > cyls 1
>> > > > > > AND 4 will be at TDC at the SAME time, but at different phases
>> of
>> > their
>> > > > > > valve timing. VW provides a cam timing indicator so the valve
>> timing
>> > > > phase
>> > > > > > can be checked against cylinder #1 TDC. Once timing for #1 is
>> > correct
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > others must also be so.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Mark
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > neil N wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Hey everyone.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Haven't got my Jetta ABA 2.0 engine started yet. Timing
>> > > > > > > sounds
>> > wrong
>> > > > > > > even though I have timing marks "correct".
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > When engine turned over, it sounds like this:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > "whir whir whir" (slight pause) "whir whir whir" etc. It
>> sounds
>> > > > > > > labored with very distinct "whirs" if that makes sense.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Starter is fine, as is battery.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I need to confirm TDC of #1 cylinder, but obviously can't see
>> the
>> > > > > > flywheel.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Bentley shows a gear attached to crank, that RPM sensor
>> "reads".
>> > There
>> > > > > > > is a factory gap on gear. (2 teeth missing). RPM sensor reads
>> this
>> > gap
>> > > > > > > as TDC for #1 cylinder.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > With sensor removed, and gap on gear lined up with RPM sensor
>> hole
>> > in
>> > > > > > > block, crank pulley mark is at 9:00 and distributor points
>> close
>> > to
>> > > > > > > #4. This somewhat confirms my suspicions. But i"m not
>> > > > > > > certain.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Anyone know if I can use this gap on the gear as reference
>> > > > > > > for
>> #1
>> > TDC?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > This is an interference engine AFAIK, so I don't want to
>> > > > > > > screw
>> > with
>> > > > > > > timing any more than I have! --- :^)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Thanks,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Neil.
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jake
>> > 1984 Vanagon GL
>> > 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
>> > Crescent Beach, BC
>> > www.crescentbeachguitar.com
>> > http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
>>
>> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
>> http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jake
> 1984 Vanagon GL
> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> Crescent Beach, BC
> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
| 
