Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 08:30:29 -0700
Reply-To: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil N <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Vanagon/Jetta timing issue. Use RPM sensor hole to find #1
TDC mark?
In-Reply-To: <71d9cdf90804142355x4404da9cg36fbc0b9d7356a53@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hi Jake.
One of the "to do" things was to get a remote starter.
I'll check for spark.
Thanks!
Neil.
On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:55 PM, Jake de Villiers
<crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you have spark? Maybe the best thing your timing light can do for you
> is determine whether you have spark or not. If its not making a spark
> there's no point in chasing down whether the ignition or valve timing is
> right or not.
>
> Step back and check for spark.
>
> If that's good, pour some gas in the manifold and see if it kicks.
>
> If there's no spark, get back to us! :)
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:31 PM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Jake.
> >
> > Yah that was one of the first things I did when checking for TDC.
> > Feeling for air coming out of spark plug hole. I also used a wood
> > dowel to fine tune. There is also a mark on the crank pulley that
> > lines up with a stationary mark on the timing belt cover. This
> > indicates TDC.
> >
> > Here's what I did to the engine prior to install:
> >
> > replaced timing belt, serp belt, water pump, switched to a non - AC/PS
> > setup in the process, (used a VR6 coolant pump pulley), rotor, cap,
> > plugs, some gaskets/o-rings etc.
> >
> > I removed the distributor to inspect it.
> >
> > As for the timing belt, I did make marks on the cam, but wasn't
> > certain about my markings (or possibly lack thereof) and had doubts
> > about timing, so did it by the book. I installed the distributor once
> > cam/crank were timed together, by lining up the rotor with the #1
> > mark, and installed it. When I rotate it by hand everything stays
> > lined up.
> >
> > I never saw the engine run.
> >
> > One thing I may still be confused about, is the intermediate shaft and
> > its' role in things. It drives the distributor, but AFAIK, if
> > distributor not installed, it doesn't need to be in any special
> > position in relation to the cam, crank and distributor.
> >
> > There are likely some other bugs keeping this thing from running, but
> > given the way it sounds when turning it over, it sure sounds like it's
> > timed incorrectly.
> >
> > I have heard that sound before! :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Neil.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 11:10 PM, Jake de Villiers
> > <crescentbeachguitar@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Just because the piston's at the top of its stroke doesn't mean its TDC.
> > > :)
> > >
> > > Pull the #1 plug and turn the motor over by hand with your thumb over
> the
> > > spark plug hole and you'll find TDC on the compression stroke. Fine
> tune
> > > with your stick if you prefer.
> > >
> > > Did you remove the distributor from the engine for some reason? If the
> > > motor was running fine before you swapped it over, the timing's close
> enough
> > > to get you started. Just clip your timing light on the #1 lead, point
> the
> > > light at the mark and crank away.
> > >
> > > Pour some gas down its little throat and crank again.
> > > Is there something you're not telling us?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 10:00 PM, neil N <musomuso@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for the reply Mark.
> > > >
> > > > So ok......
> > > >
> > > > If I'm understanding this correctly, as long as #1 is at the top of
> > > > its' stroke, whether or not it is an beginning its' exhaust or
> > > > compression stroke, is determined by how I set the cam?
> > > >
> > > > FWIW, I'm treating this engine as if the cam, intermediate shaft,
> > > > crank and distributor are out of sync with each other.
> > > >
> > > > Currently it's timed so when #1 is at TDC, the cam is at its' correct
> > > > mark, and the distributor is at #1 mark. I confirmed TDC using wood
> > > > dowel in spark plug hole. Crank pulley mark lines up with mark on
> > > > plastic timing belt cover.
> > > >
> > > > But.......
> > > >
> > > > In Bentley it says that if the RPM sensor is faulty, the engine won't
> > > > start. I'm not assuming it's faulty, but my concern is that if
> > > > (ignoring cam now) I have #1 set to the "exhaust" stroke in relation
> > > > to the gap on the crank gear, that this may be fouling up the RPM
> > > > sensor, therefore keeping the engine from starting.
> > > >
> > > > Neil.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 8:59 PM, Mark Drillock
> <drillock@earthlink.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > You have a 4 stroke engine, also called a 4 cycle. (I don't mean 4
> cyl
> > > > > though yours is that too)
> > > > >
> > > > > With a 4 stroke engine it takes 2 complete revolutions of the crank
> to
> > > > > complete a full cycle. With a 4 cylinder 4 cycle that means the
> crank
> > > timing
> > > > > mark will line up for 2 different cylinders at TDC at the same time.
> One
> > > > > will be lined up in its compression stroke TDC and the other will at
> the
> > > > > same time be lined up for its exhaust stroke TDC.
> > > > >
> > > > > The firing order of the VW inline engine is 1-3-4-2. That means
> that
> > > cyls 1
> > > > > AND 4 will be at TDC at the SAME time, but at different phases of
> their
> > > > > valve timing. VW provides a cam timing indicator so the valve timing
> > > phase
> > > > > can be checked against cylinder #1 TDC. Once timing for #1 is
> correct
> > > the
> > > > > others must also be so.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > neil N wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey everyone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Haven't got my Jetta ABA 2.0 engine started yet. Timing sounds
> wrong
> > > > > > even though I have timing marks "correct".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When engine turned over, it sounds like this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "whir whir whir" (slight pause) "whir whir whir" etc. It sounds
> > > > > > labored with very distinct "whirs" if that makes sense.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Starter is fine, as is battery.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I need to confirm TDC of #1 cylinder, but obviously can't see the
> > > > > flywheel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bentley shows a gear attached to crank, that RPM sensor "reads".
> There
> > > > > > is a factory gap on gear. (2 teeth missing). RPM sensor reads this
> gap
> > > > > > as TDC for #1 cylinder.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sensor removed, and gap on gear lined up with RPM sensor hole
> in
> > > > > > block, crank pulley mark is at 9:00 and distributor points close
> to
> > > > > > #4. This somewhat confirms my suspicions. But i"m not certain.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anyone know if I can use this gap on the gear as reference for #1
> TDC?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an interference engine AFAIK, so I don't want to screw
> with
> > > > > > timing any more than I have! --- :^)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Neil.
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jake
> 1984 Vanagon GL
> 1986 Westy Weekender "Dixie"
> Crescent Beach, BC
> www.crescentbeachguitar.com
> http://subyjake.googlepages.com/mydixiedarlin%27
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia - "Jaco"
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
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