Date:         Thu, 8 Nov 2007 07:36:37 -0500
Reply-To:     "Jack R." <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Jack R." <jack007@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Clutch shutter, vibation, shaking - why?
In-Reply-To:  <000001c821db$4679a1f0$6501a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just did a complete clutch replacement, new disk, resurfaced flywheel and
pressure plate... following my rear-main seal replacement.  Everything was
perfectly matched up and professional done by a top notch clutch rebuilder.
I later had a front brake caliper failure, and also replaced the master
cylinder... I bled the brakes, but haven't bled the clutch slave yet.  I am
getting a light shutter if I don't let the clutch out just right now.  So,
based on Scott's tips below, I am going to try the bleed the clutch slave.
I know everything else is 100% in my case.

Just wanted to share my experience to shed some light on this, and also to
say Thanks to Scott for the insight on the information shared below.

Jack R.
84 Westy Wolfie, 2.1L, 4 speed

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Shazam
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:45 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Clutch shutter, vibation, shaking - why?

Severe clutch chatter is usually oil on the disc.
Sometimes you can even burn it off by starting out, from a stop, in 2nd or
3rd just slipping the hell out of the clutch....like it might take a whole
block to get the clutch all the way out, you have to slip it that much,
starting out in 2nd or 3rd .
  That's burn the oil off the disc, by golly......it 'might' temporarily
reduce the chatter affect.  Do it several times if needed.
No such thing as a warped vanagon flywheel in my world.  They seldom are a
problem.
Extremely unlikely air in hydraulics is the cause.
Clutch disc springs do get loose.  Haven't seen it too much, but they can
fall out of place, or jam, I've never seen a broken one.
Sounds like your cluch hydraulics are tired.
Brake fluid for those has probably never been changed from the sound of
things.
Wouldn't be surprised if the clutch was very, very worn out inside the bell
housing.
For oil leak - ream main seal, possibly clutch input shaft seal.
Check the transmission oil level.
Sounds like it might need 'a lot' possibly, a lot of repair operations and
parts, that is.
Scott
www.turbovans.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Nathan Mc Blain
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:02 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Clutch shutter, vibation, shaking - why?

List,
  The good news is all the coolant repairs and parts are holding thanks to
the info gained from everyone Thanks.

  The bad news is my van is having clutch problems - alot of shaking when
letting out the clutch.  Noticed mostly in reverse but really bad now in
first,second.  Once I get going things are OK but I'm afraid of total
failure so have stopped using it.  For a long time I have had a klinkity
klink like a penny in a can noise and also a screeching noise at certain
RPMS.  The catalytic converter did come apart and I replaced it and emptied
the muffler.  I hate to ask questions and try to just listen and learn but
now I have to ask.

  Some history: When I first inherited this van 2004 it started having
clutch problems-suddenly there was just very slight grab nothing to move the
vehicle.  At the time this list and any knowledge of vanagons was unknown to
me.  It got stuck in my uncles yard.  To make a long story short he tried to
help me without my knowledge and while heavily intoxicated.  He just floored
it until it grabbed layed a good strip of grass and rubber when it reached
the asphalt-not nice to my van:(  At the time I thought oil was on the
flywheel and sprayed brake cleaner in the access hole with the motor
running...probably washed grease out of places it should be and other bad
stuff - stupid me!!!

  This Sunday I described this and everything I know to a young professional
mechanic acquaintance (execpt for the brake cleaner blunder) of mine- he's a
very good mech but not at all familiar with the uniqueness of our vans or
the expense of the parts.  He's too busy to take another job but has offered
to let me pull the trans with his tools at his house. Anyway he thought my
flywheel is warped.  And together we came up with the thought that one of
the dampening springs in the clutch disk may have broken.  I'm wondering if
one of the springs on the clutch disk broke and is bouncing around in the
belhousing?  That would account for the penny in a can noise.  Is this
possible, plausible, common?

  While I was under there today preparing trans removal if needed -spraying
all the corroded bolts trans/engine bolts with liquid wrench.  I tried
pushing up on the clutch lever to see if the slave would move and it did
with medium resistance.  Is that normal?  Can air in the clutch system do
this?  And cause my shuttering and shaking?  My mechanic acquaintance says
no what do you say?  I read somehere in the archives that it could but it is
difficult to always determine fact from fiction as EVERTHING is in the
arcives.

  FWIW:Under the boot the slave is wet- some weeping.  I also have a weep
coming from the dash end of things but cannot see if it is brake master or
clutch master.  So air could and probably is entering.

  Sorryfor the longwinded e-mail.  In short:
  What's the most likely cause to severe clutch shutter?
  Do the disk springs ever break, could that be the cause?
  Is it easy to warp the flywheel?
  Can air in the clutch system be a cause?

  TIA,
  Nate 90 2.1L MT silver non/GL- who just wants to avoid unessisary trans
removal and fix the shaking

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