Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:29:44 -0700
Reply-To: dylan friedman <insyncro@YAHOO.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: dylan friedman <insyncro@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: cracked AMC heads question
In-Reply-To: <46E559B3.8070303@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Ken,
I have 5 sets of AMC heads at my shop right now with at least one valve that is shot. The highest mileage of any of them is 15k.
The heads GoWesty sells and BB's Big Valve heads are far from stock.
I trust those two vendors and Benny Boy has a section devoted to AMCs as well.
Give it a read, well worth the time spent checking it out.
Stock is stock.
dylan
Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET> wrote: I have sold many, many AMC heads with the valves that come with them
over the years. I have also installed many of them for customers.
Maybe there was a problem several years ago with the valves, but I have
never had a problem with the stock valves that come with the heads. If
the other suppliers were telling the full story they would tell you that
they are taking out valves that they say have quality issues only to put
back in valves that are not OE anyway (so who really knows how much
better quality of a valve that they are?). The OE valves are so
expensive that you couldn't use them and still sell the heads for what
these folks are selling them for. So to me it is one of those "You
should buy it from me because everyone else is selling crap" stories
that is mostly smoke and mirrors. Now if they were putting in OE valves
I would have no problem with them decrying the quality of the valves
that come in the AMC heads and charging a premium for changing the
valves. If they aren't doing that I feel that this is just a marketing
ploy to add value to a product just because it came from a certain store
when in fact everyone else is selling a similar product for a cheaper
price. The place out West sells many unique and cool products that only
they have and that is good. However just because you paid extra for a
head at this Western store (or any other vendor) doesn't necessarily
mean that it is better. Even when you have pictures and a nice
technical story to go with it.
Just my opinion,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
dylan friedman wrote:
>Bottomline, if you are going to spend the money on brand new AMC heads....make sure you replace the stock valves. Read up at GoWesty and Boston Bob on this subject.
>
>With that amount spent on heads, it doesn't make sense to not freshen up the bottomend bearing, replace water pump, oil pump........you get the picture.
>
>At this point you will have spent about 3/4 of the cost of a 2.5 Subaru conversion or Zetec if you do it yourself.
>
>The wbx is get if it is running strong, but I would transplant if you want true reliabliity.
>
>dylan's 2cents
>
>Chris Lisica wrote: This van will eventually be my wife's daily driver, hopefully. That's my
>goal. So I really want to get the engine in tip top shape and have minimal
>rescues. It has an auto trans axle that is fairly new so once the engine is
>dialed in, it should be very reliable. The previous owner spent a fortune
>throwing parts at the van, so lots of things are new.
>
>On to the heads. So, in your opinion/experiences, engine performance is
>restored to new by buying new heads/cylinders/pistons? I'm a little hesitant
>to do the whole shebang because the previous owner said that it ran very
>well prior to the overheating issues. His exact words were, "Very strong".
>So based on that, I'm hoping I can get away w/ good used heads and see what
>happens. But at the same time, I don't want to do this 10K miles down the
>road. Thoughts?
>
>Thanks for the input..
>
>Chris
>
>On 9/9/07, David Kao
> wrote:
>
>
>>It's really a question how well you want to rebuild your engine.
>>A crack between the valves may be fine for a while but eventually
>>the head will fall apart. You will have to take it apart again
>>to deal with it eventually.
>>
>>If you want the engine back to what it was but with no crack on
>>the head to worry about then buy a used one that has no crack and no
>>damaged valves and valve seats. Just do a valve job and put the engine
>>back together. This may last a long time and the engine performance
>>will reflect its mileage.
>>
>>But if you really want your engine rebuilt back to top performance
>>the best strategy is to spend for a pair of new heads. Replace the
>>piston/cylinder liners as well. If everything is done properly the
>>engine will perform well over another 100k without giving you performance
>>issues.
>>
>>I just had my 1.9 engine rebuilt. I put in a new set of liners only
>>because
>>the heads were replaced 20k miles ago by a VW dealer under warranty. I
>>first
>>thought the heads were rebuilt. But I found out that the heads were
>>actually
>>new VW heads. After 3k miles of break-in I am extremely happy with the
>>result
>>of the rebuild. The engine is totally cool now. I am glad that I had the
>>new liners in it.
>>
>>An 87 Westy is worth a full restore if I were you. Good luck.
>>
>>David
>>
>>
>>--- Chris Lisica wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yeah, sorry, I'm talking about the cracks between the valves. I've heard
>>>that a hairline fracture is acceptable, but that one in my picture is
>>>
>>>
>>pretty
>>
>>
>>>big. A leak test would be good.
>>>
>>>Hmmm, thanks for the advice. Some of those measurement numbers are
>>>
>>>
>>scary! I
>>
>>
>>>have a line on a used set of German heads for $200, I may just go that
>>>route.
>>>
>>>Chris
>>>
>>>On 9/9/07, Scott Daniel - Shazam wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You're talking about the cracks between the two valves ?
>>>>Totally normal.
>>>>You 'could' get them pressure tested if you're worried,
>>>>You can also peen the cracks shut with a hammer and punch.
>>>>
>>>>Fwiw - ..judging by the corrosion where the water gasket touches this
>>>>
>>>>
>>head
>>
>>
>>>>-
>>>>perhaps you might get away with head gaskets only.
>>>>
>>>>I would also test for valve sealing by filling the ports with gasoline
>>>>
>>>>
>>or
>>
>>
>>>>kerosene, and see if they leak. I usually find at least one exhaust
>>>>
>>>>
>>valve
>>
>>
>>>>leaking.
>>>>Then I have a machine shop do a valve job.
>>>>
>>>>And what I wanted to say about AMC heads - fwiw, I have one.....that
>>>>
>>>>
>>I
>>
>>
>>>>installed new, and it didn't last, for head gasket sealing .....that
>>>>particular head is so far out of 'dimension' it's sick. Pure
>>>>junk. And
>>>>it was factory new. So I'd be careful about AMC heads, if nothing
>>>>
>>>>
>>else.
>>
>>
>>>>I'm finding it necessary to check how much the water gasket gets
>>>>compressed.
>>>>By my measurements the water gasket is 3.7 mm thick.
>>>>Put the head on temporarily ( with metal sealing rings at the top of
>>>>
>>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>>barrels ) and measure the water gasket gap.
>>>>Iv'e seen it be 3.7 mm - thus no compression on the water gasket -
>>>>
>>>>
>>and it
>>
>>
>>>>leaked after a thousand miles.
>>>>Iv'e seen it vary , like 4 mm on one end, 7 mm on the other, and so
>>>>
>>>>
>>forth.
>>
>>
>>>>And I'd be real careful with AMC heads.
>>>>I'd rather have a good set of used non-amc heads and rebuild them,
>>>>
>>>>
>>then
>>
>>
>>>>install them, than use AMC heads, unless the measure out nicely.
>>>>Scott
>>>>www.turbovans.com
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>>>>
>>>>
>>Behalf Of
>>
>>
>>>>Chris Lisica
>>>>Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:35 PM
>>>>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>Subject: cracked AMC heads question
>>>>
>>>>Volks,
>>>>
>>>>After purchasing my wife's 87 Westy project, I'm finally getting
>>>>
>>>>
>>started.
>>
>>
>>>>I
>>>>knew the heads were messed up, but I was hoping for a simple head
>>>>
>>>>
>>gasket
>>
>>
>>>>job. Upon closer inspection, and a few pictures in macro focus mode,
>>>>
>>>>
>>there
>>
>>
>>>>appears to be a big crack on the one side. Any opinions? Is this head
>>>>reusable? What could cause such a large crack? The pics:
>>>>
>>>>http://wavanagon.googlepages.com/amcheads
>>>>
>>>>Please help enlighten an aspiring Vanagon mechanic. Thanks for any
>>>>advice/input/feedback/links/etc.....
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Chris
>>>>88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>>>>87 Westfalia (in progress)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>--
>>>Chris
>>>88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>>>87 Westfalia (in progress)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>____________________________________________________________________________________
>>Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
>>knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
>>http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Chris
>88 Vanagon GL (daily driver)
>87 Westfalia (in progress)
>
>
>
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