Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 13:03:52 -0700
Reply-To: Brendan Slevin <brendan@BELLATAZZA.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Brendan Slevin <brendan@BELLATAZZA.COM>
Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
In-Reply-To: <000001c7d53c$15cc40d0$6401a8c0@TOSHIBALAP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You know, the guy I got Totoro from said almost this same thing. "Just take
it slow and careful and you'll be much better off."
Brendan
84 GL Totoro
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons. -T.S. Eliot
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Shazam
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 12:34 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
The only stock vanagon that has the heater cable inside the passenger
compartment next to the glove box is the 82 diesel vanagon, the first water
cooled vanagon of any kind.
In 83 and from then on up, it's under the floor, above the spare
tire.....'up in there.'
I figure they did it for safety reasons .....more hoses and parts in the
passenger area means more chances of coolant leaking into the passenger's
floor area ....its' poisonous, it could scald someone, it makes a mess in
the interior.
I'm pretty sure there is only one heater cable, for all water cooled
vanagons, whether the heater valve is in the cockpit, or below the floor. -
point is, the stock cable works in either case, just fine.
Being a total safety nut .....i would always opt for having the heater valve
below the floor.
I have experienced where they wouldn't quite go all the way on and also all
the way off - almost like you get either 'full off in the summer, but not
100 % in the winter, or vice-versa.
I did on my 82 turbo diesel vanagon put a hardware store valve in the
dash.....kinda below the glove box, where I could reach it easily..........I
think I eventually went back to stock heater valve.
On about 10 vanagons since then I've never bothered or had a problem with
unwanted heat, or lack of good heater control.
You do have to pay attention to the cable though.
It's a dumb design, and coupled with the fact that no one, basically, ever
lubes that cable and many other little mechanisms on vanagons....the cable
gets draggy.
And....here's the dumb design part....when you move the lever towards
'warmer' ( right ) you are Pulling the cable out of it's housing, and
opening the heater valve more. No problem.
However, when you move the lever left, you are trying to push the inner
cable back into the ( unlubed and draggy ) outer cable housing ....and they
have a nice 4 inch span or so where the cable will gladly bow out and kink -
from then on, you can't shut your heater valve off all the way.
Virtually 'all' vanagons do this, but the solution is real simple. Either
replace the cable, or even just straighten it nicely, and lube the heck out
of the cable, inside. Move the lever back and forth, get a nice spray lube
going into the cable, and lube that sucker up real nice...
Like 5 minutes of feeding lube and moving the lever/cable. Lube the lever
pivot point too.
I get wonderful heater valve control this way, and easily, and without
ordering or buying parts even, quite often, on dozens of vanagons.
( I know it's really fun to put on some 'creative' non- factory system
sometimes.......for sure - and having fun IS important, and I will re-do
something the factory did a poor job on one.......but as Mark Drillock
suggested.....
too many tacked-on and or hacked modifications............you know.
And I even had what mark suggested could happen - I had a girlfriend say,
no, "I don't want to drive it , there are too many special switches and
things to monitor."
Anyway , do as you will - and let's just be reasonable about modifications,
let's have them be 'factory looking' and nicely functional, and not
tacked-on 'afterthings' too badly !
Last comment - I suggest that we develop a more 'inspect, diagnose, adjust,
tweak, lube, straighten, re-set, etc' mentality, and less of a 'parts
mentality.'
Really, about 75 % of the time, just looking at some system carefully,
cleaning it up, flushing fluids, what-have-you - makes a fine and
lasting repair.
Of course, I personally don't figure to neglect the refurbished system for
10 years either. - those following the common 'do nothing until it doesn't
work right' regime might indeed want to replace most parts in sight each
time some system calls for attention.
Personally, I find it more rewarding and less expensive to 'nurture' most
systems by taking really good care of them......I must spray a lube on
things 50 times a day sometimes. Amazing what a difference that makes to
almost all systems. .........Why................... lube a brake pedal
push rod clevis pin......who ever heard of that ??? Or the tip of the
clutch slave pushrod where it meets the lever on the side of the bell
housing ? ......yes - your vanagon would love to have every tiny part that
moves lubed now and then. There could be a couple hundred little spots no
one ever lubes, where metal slides on metal. ( ever hear a squeak ?
...in metal parts, that's the sound of metal molecules being sheared off by
the other piece of metal it rubs on).
The heater valve control cable is a good example - so easy to make work
right with just a little attention, straightening, lubing etc.
Anyway, do as you will, and enjoy your vanagon all you can, and I just
suggest that 'replacing parts' is only one small tool in a large too bag of
vanagon-healing tricks. It's sure not the first tool I reach for, but then
I get a lot personal reward out of nurturing a part or system back to heath,
by lubing, tweaking, cleaning ...all that. Any idiot can slap on a new part
- and sometimes the aftermarket parts aren't even as good as the factory
parts....
Here is a sign of mastery to strive for .....knowing how to get 100% the
result you seek, with 'just enough' energy and effort, and not expending
more than is needed, or way much more than is really needed. . If there is
something you are *really* good at, notice how you usually don't use a
sledge hammer, where a tiny tap will produce the desired result.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Mark Tuovinen
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:26 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
I have been contemplating this also. I suspect that due to its size the
stock valve may not fit but many automobiles use a similar system and one of
them is bound to have a valve that would work and accept the control cable.
Someone just needs to take the time to search through parts catalogs to find
a valve that will fit and then reroute the control cable and install it.
You may end up having to reverse the lever operation as the stock
arrangement has the cable coming into the control assembly from the drivers
side and it would be a tight bend to try and route it from there to the
hoses inside as they are on the passenger side. The flip side of moving the
valve is that VW probably put the valve where it is at least partially to
minimize the number of connections and therefore opportunities for leaks in
the passenger compartment. My `86 Syncro parts van is sitting in the garage
with part of the dash apart, I will take a look at it to see if it is a
viable project. Can a
nyone tell me what the "ID" is on the hoses, if so I can peruse the catalogs
in my spare(lol) time here at work. I would measure them myself but the van
is at home and I am at work, and my time at home for the next few days will
be spent preparing and packing our Westy Syncro for next weeks trip from
Anchorage to Dawson City via the Top of the World Highway. Then down to
Whitehorse and a side trip to Skagway before heading home.
Mark in AK
----- Original Message -----
From: Brendan Slevin <brendan@BELLATAZZA.COM>
Date: Thursday, August 2, 2007 7:45 am
Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Is there any reason one couldn't relocate the stock valve to an
> accessibleunder-dash location and shorten the operating cable?
>
>
>
> Brendan
>
> I have measured out my life with coffee spoons. -T.S. Eliot
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On
> Behalf Of
> Ryan Miller
> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:07 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
>
> Very astute of you, but what you may not know is I have a Beher
> under dash
> AC unit. This has permanently blocked access to the valve, which
> sits on top
> of the heater box, and a number of other little items. For me,
> there's no
> other choice but to pull the dash. Something I hope only to do a
> couple of
> times in my life. I'm on number 2 right now ;)
>
> Ryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Drillock [mailto:mdrillock@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 6:27 PM
> To: Ryan Miller
> Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Inserting Terry K heater shutoff valve
>
> Why would you do is as part of a dash removal? The heater valve is not
> behind the dash. It is outside, behind the radiator. You change it by
> dropping the spare tire and reaching up there while on your back
> on the
> ground.
>
> 82 watercooled have it inside next to the glovebox but still no reason
> to remove the dash.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> Ryan Miller wrote:
>
> > I replaced my valve the last time I had my dash off. No
> difference. Still
> > got the hot foot. Problem (in my van) seems to be by adjusting
> the cable
> the
> > lever can either open the valve the whole way or close it the
> whole way.
> Not
> > both. To solve this I let it open the whole way for winter
> driving and
> then
> > will close off the coolant flow with the added valve in the summer.
> >
> > Ryan
> >
>
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