Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:06:40 -0400
Reply-To: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject: Re: OT E85 in our future?
In-Reply-To: <f06240800c2910910d538@[192.168.1.100]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are 5 good points, which may indeed currently be the only points for
e85.
1) It is a great fuel from an engine standpoint, with charge cooling, and
higher power density than gas
2) It is/will be cheap(for consumers) as it is promoted into use, gaps of
37%+ cheaper are already in some markets
3) It is a choice. Even though it might not be everything it's touted to be,
it's better than not having one.
4) It is entirely possible to grow/distill it yourself. Someone mentioned
using gas to till the fields to grow corn for ethanol.. I'm pretty sure
they'll figure out they should be running ethanol to do so... despite corn
not being a good way to derive ethanol.
5) As dennis said too, it is renewable.
Sure there are lot's of problems, but I keep saying this, the money is going
into it... I think the best thing one can do is to try and ensure the best
outcome of the spending is the result. If you sit back and naysay it, or
simply don't care, you end up with the worst types of waste and failed
project outcomes, which is worse than the not-so-great better outcome... I
think perfectionism and idealism don't live long or easy in money and
politics which is the realm this is taking place in. If people that knew had
tried to help out and shake up the big dig in Boston for instance, it would
have been a better outcome than sitting back waiting until they could say "I
told you so", or if only to save any attachment to the project. Sure it was
still ill-concieved and the outcome was never going to be worth it, but it's
far worse if the destructive ego driven behavior takes over instead of a
let's do the best we can in a bad situation behavior.
On the RVs are smaller in Europe, it seems they are to scale of the distance
they tend to drive, just like Japan.
Jim Akiba
-----Original Message-----
From: David Etter [mailto:detter@MAIL.AURACOM.COM]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 10:04 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: OT E85 in our future?
Oops! Sorry Dennis:
I forgot to mention that commercial vehicles were exempt. It
was cars and light trucks I was referring to, but you are right in
theory "Cylinder count is not necessarily an indication of horsepower
or fuel consumption" but generally it is.
It has been shown that taxes on fuel will stop people for a
while but they quickly adjust and with a few well timed price
reductions and contrived shortages then surpluses, we are all right
back at it.
Whereas a one-time break on the purchase of a eco friendly
vehicle produces a longer effect on fuel consumption. As well, most
motor homes across the ocean are 2.5 - 3.0 liter turbo diesels and
are not the behemoths that we have over here.
David (dsl82westy)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~
>Cylinder count is not necessarily an indication of horsepower or fuel
>consumption. Many trucks and busses are only 6 cylinders. My present 6
>cylinder Diesel motor home can drink much more fuel than my previous 10
>cylinder gasoline powered one.
>
>I really don't believe in taxes as deterrents to fuel consumption but if
>it most be done, simple taxes per gallon will reduce consumption through
>both use and vehicle selection at purchase time. As for alternative fuels
>such as E85 or Bio-Diesel, the only real advantage is the renewable
>factor. I agree that most of the bio talk and ethanol is show.
>
>Dennis
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
>David Etter
>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:13 PM
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: OT E85 in our future?
>
>Further to that, if you add in the gasoline/diesel consumed by
>farmers in growing the ethanol and they have to make several passes
>over the field, then you begin to see the crazy side of this
>alternative fuel farce. To say nothing about driving up the cost of
>corn for livestock and human consumption and they get incentives to
>grow the corn. It's all about 'show'.
> If you tax vehicle buyers by the number of cylinders and give
>a tax break to diesel fuels like they do in GB & Europe, then
>consumption will drop significantly.
> Heck! In some locations in London they even pro-rate taxes
>depending on cylinder count for parking in front of your own house.
>
> David (dsl82westy)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>~~~~~~
>
>>I'm a day late on the OT post but can't resist. For those that are
>waiting
>>for the 'alternative fuels' read this:
>>http://www.automotiverhythms.com/news/news70.php
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