Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 23:44:36 -0400
Reply-To: Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA>
Subject: Re: Friday Story
Yes Bro, it's friday!!! hey hey hey... just having fun...
I'm OFF and still, i'm talking "Vanagon"....
Ok, Oil pressure, well, you got it right! It's simply one very easy thing,
let's put it simple, quantity of oil at the beginning (Oil pump generate
flow and pressure, like for a battery, the ALT generate voltage that result
in amp) and quantity and speed at the end is measure, what is lost in
between (i said, let's keep that simple!!!) will show, a cretain lost is
normal, this is where our sender (when working) will tell us that the
pressure is to low. Today's engine have more "Strict" tolerance, no wear,
rev higher. The wasser engine is: first, older in design and older for real,
create less pressure by design... even new, and crave for thicker oil to
create that pressure.
What i think is simple, wasser have way more tolerance before they break!
yea! the gap betweeen crank to case to bearing can stand some gap, some
other engine would not, so oil filled that gap, yea, the more thicker the
more you fill the gap, oil as no time to go in between parts if to tick. But
temperature play a big part, mostly when cold. 10W40 is fine most of the
time but on older sick engine, it won't work on the long run. Yea, i said
sick. I don't remember exactly but 10W40 was giving me 3 to 5 PSI less.
I'm a bit tired now so to end that thread for today, i will tell you that to
much oil will create to much "pressure" in the case and on some parts, and
that can also result in leaks, or gasket breakdown. But still, Oil weight
VS air have a big effect on oil circulation/speed/pressure. On top,
companie's have decided what the minimum and max oil level should be set so
the internal part are not working to hard so it move that oil easily, if
submerge, internal parts will have a harder time just moving, not even
producing power.
So your right, bigger fuel consumption.
I hope i made sense, in some way's... to many Canadian beers... you all have
a great night.
Ok, me dead...
Ben
On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:21:25 -0700, David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>Take it easy. It's Friday.
>
>Some clarification first. I overfilled my 84 when it was parked for 4 years.
>It never lost compression from any lifters. I do not overfill it since I
>brought it back to service. I try to fill it to the max on the stick.
>
>The oil level on the stick is what I meant. If it is not an oil level, what
>is it? Every owners manual says check oil level at xx00 mile interval.
>It also says check tranmission fluid level, brake fluid level, etc...
>
>I bought my vanagon brand new in 1984. I got the lifter noise in the first
month
>of ownership of the van. It disappeared on my way to the dealership. It was new
>and it lost compression. I was out of town for a week. It was parked for
the week.
>It happened again at least one more time within a month. It did not occur
>frequently so it wasn't a serious matter to me at the time.
>
>I adjusted my 83's lifters last week. 1.5 turns instead of 2 turns. The oil
level
>was mid point between marks on the stick. Within a few days it lost
compression from
>one lifter. I topped up the oil to the max mark. If this makes no
difference I should
>hear the noise again at least once within a month.
>
>If I understand it correctly higher oil pressure is not the goal of choosing a
>specific weight of oil. It is how fast oil flows and how thick an oil layer
it will
>fill in between metal surfaces, such as crankshaft and its bearlings.
Heavier weight
>gives you higher pressure but it may not flow fast enough to fill in the gap,
>especially in high RPM situations. Lower weight oil will flow faster and
fill in
>the gap quicker but the oil layer may be too thin to provide sufficient
protection.
>
>When I took apart my 84's wasserbox at 110k miles to reseal the heads I saw
more
>than sufficient data to tell me 10w-40 had been fine for my wasserbox. At
times I
>was able to get 24 MPG. When I used 20w-50 it was never able to exceed 20
MPG. And
>it never helped in the noisy lifter problem. This issue has been discussed
too many
>times so don't bother to do it all over again.
>
>I made this conclusion from both my 83 and 84 basically. Just top up your
oil to
>the max mark and see if it makes any difference for you. If not, it is not
a crime
>to do so anyway.
>
>David
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Benny boy <huotb@VIDEOTRON.CA> wrote:
>
>> Why do you think engine have "oil level"?
>>
>> I won't tell you why, i will let you or the other do so! (Dennis, don't say
>> anything :-)
>>
>> Now, take an oil pressure gage, a good one, do a pressure test at 90F and do
>> it at 3500+rpm and wile driving, with both oil grade... after, come back to
>> the list and tell us the result.
>>
>> I have NO problem filling the case at the top line on the dip stick, that is
>> fine, but no more.
>>
>> Now, why do lifter go empty... that is the real question.
>>
>> Do any of you had a valves adjustment lately, be honest, how many??? You
>> should! Yea, Hydro lifter van go out of adjustment, big news on friday!
>>
>> Lifter are older, and it's perfectly normal for them to empty a bit more
>> often, and that is NOT a big problem. If they empty each days, start by
>> checking your valve adjustment and is the problem is still there, think
>> about some new lifters. Ho, and i so hope your running 20W50 :-)
>>
>> Also, wile i'm on the subject, lately, i have see quite a few bent
>> pushrod... that doesn't help at all!
>>
>> Many will think that i hate Wasser because i now have a Subi, not really, i
>> nice wasser engine is a good engine... but THEY ARE OLD! that is different.
>>
>> Benny
>>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 16:33:27 -0700, David Kao <dtkao0205@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
>>
>> >OK, I must tell this Friday story, which was from a very wise man on
this list
>> >back at least 10 years ago.
>> >
>> >This gentleman said if we park our vanagons on a slope over night. We would
>> be much
>> >more likely attacked by the extremely popular lifter noise problem which
>> would go
>> >away after 10 minutes of reving the box at 3000 RPM.
>> >
>> >This gentleman's words had me thinking. What if I jack up the rear of my
>> vanagon whenever
>> >I park on my drive way? My Vanagon would be level. Or... I decided to fill
>> more oil into
>> >the case and see. The effect of more oil when parked on a slope may be
>> equal to parking
>> >on level ground with correct oil level.
>> >
>> >Yes, it is. When I put my 84 in non operative for 4 years I overfilled oil
>> to slightly
>> >above the oil stick's upper limit mark. For 4 years I only started the
>> engine once every
>> >2 to 3 months. I never lost compression out of any lifters. The Vanagon
>> never left the
>> >drive way for 4 years.
>> >
>> >Now my 84 has been back to service for a while. I always fill oil to the
>> max mark on
>> >the stick. Not a single lifter noise problem yet with daily parking on the
>> same drive way.
>> >If the oil level is between the marks the problem would attack at least
>> once a month.
>> >Dino 20w-50 made no differences. I will be back to 10w-40 to get 22 MPG
>> instead of 20.
>> >
>> >David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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>
>
>
>
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