Date:         Fri, 18 May 2007 09:36:29 -0400
Reply-To:     Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Jim Akiba <syncrolist@BOSTIG.COM>
Subject:      Re: 102mph - Turbo vs. 6-cylinder
In-Reply-To:  <vanagon%2007051801492149@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Well that's the idea in getting a large DB of Db and frequency data, if
that's true(about different configurations affecting noise greatly, which I
also "sense" casually) we'll be able to measure and see the difference. Why
speculate when you can measure?  As long as there are accurate descriptions
about the variables that would affect noise during the tests, collecting
data is the best way to get the real scoop on which is actually louder,
which is perceived to be louder, what effect configuration and sounds
proofing truly has, and what levels people find acceptable. Currently there
exists no such data, it's time there was some... as the vast majority of
owners cannot drive all the permutations of vanagon and determine for
themselves either where they actually stand noise-wise, and perhaps even
where they could be with any accuracy relative or absolute. There is almost
no point in even describing something as "quiet" and someone contradicting
them on an email list, as those two descriptors can't even begin to describe
the issue being discussed unless they are being said by the same individual.
And  in this case both parties are biases, measuring properly will remove
contention and get people real information. Who knows, it may be the case
that we can't measure accurately enough, or there will be too many problems
in the testing itself, but it's worth doing to find out. Let me know if you
guys or your customers would like to participate, I think it is useful info
for the whole group.

Yeah I know what you mean about the "good loud" it goes back to the needing
to love the sound of your engine to truly love the engine. I didn't like the
SVX noise, even in exchange for the power, knowing there is a quieter "sweet
spot" is useful though. Getting rid of resonant exhaust noise is a common
problem in all engine mod aftermarkets(I recall with dread the infamous
302/mustang/flowmaster "drone") when it comes to it, I'd sac up to 20% of
that SVX power for a quieter ride.

Yeah I'm starting to see like the SVX is the easier faster option to more
power over a turbo subie, bummer because turbos are the best replacement for
displacement, and I've seen the "glove-like" fitment many times and each
time I'm glad it belongs to someone else so I don't have to touch it... then
again after seeing the 2.5 TDi literally *stuffed* into Tom's engine bay at
SDM07(very interesting install points too like the integrated exhaust
section/skidplate) my perception has changed somewhat. I don't even know
*if* a serp belt replacement is possible without moving the engine on that
setup let alone *how*.

Jim Akiba



-----Original Message-----
From: John Reddick [mailto:SVYOLO@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 1:44 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: 102mph - Turbo vs. 6-cylinder

Jim;
    The type of van means far more for ambient noise than most engine
choices, as long as the exhaust isn't a goat rope.  Passenger vans are far
quieter than any Westy.  Syncro passenger vans included.  Db meters mean
nothing unless it is the same type of van. Passenger vans have factory
sound insulation all over the place, Westies have none.  I tried to
replicate the passenger van insulation in my Westy.  It helped but not
even close in quietness.  FIberglass top wind noise maybe???
    SVX engines with stock gearing are loud on the highway.  With a .70,
it is very pleasant and muted, with a mild, pleasant, 911 sound. You can
barely hear it at 70-75, and the wind roar at the more normal 80-90 far
exceeds the engine noise. I have been without a SVX in my personal Westy
for almost a year.  I miss the sound every day I drive it. Around town
they are a slightly louder, but it is a good loud.  I never minded it.
Locals in WA an CA always did a double take when I pulled in or out of a
parking lot.
    SVX's were a very limited production engine and are not for everybody.
Most are now 15 years old.  Parts are not as common as 4 cylinder Subies.
But then again, Vanagon parts arent all that easy to come by either,
resulting in this list.  I think I see more SVX's in PA than Vanagons, so
maybe it is not something to worry about in that context.
     All that being said, our SVX shop installed price is only about 1500 -
 2000 more than a late model 2.5.  A turbo would be 2000 dollars more than
the SVX. MPG is about the same, maybe very slightly better for the turbo
motors.
     Did I mention I miss my SVX engined van every day?

     John
     Vanaru.com