Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:52:08 -0700
Reply-To: neil <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: neil <musomuso@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Riddle me this... Honda Brake question NVC!
In-Reply-To: <BAY125-DAV89AC101758D9C60702E3EA0330@phx.gbl>
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Thanks Dennis.
Interesting, and as usual very informative!
As I had written, rotors were replaced free of charge. Even with what
you wrote of, I can't see how they would have worn down that much with
the **original** pads. Didn't make sense to me, and upon further
conversation with guys at dealership, they found a bulletin regarding
front pads.
All this is good though as I'm learning more about pads/rotors which
will help in Vanagon-land in my world!
Neil.
On 5/16/07, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On many cars it is becoming a normal practice to replace front rotors with
> the pads. There are a number of reasons to do this:
>
> 1) It avoids or eliminates comebacks due to brake noises or bouncing
> brakes.
> 2) Due to the high costs of labor, even at the ridiculous price of dealer
> rotors, it is not cost justified to cut them.
> 3) Rotor cutting lathes are not that good and neither are low wage
> operators, go back to step 1.
> 4) Newer pad materials do cause rotor wear. Most vehicles only have 2mm
> extra. Vanagons included.
> 5) New rotors are not turned on a lathe. They are milled or fly cut. That
> gives a cross hatch pattern which helps to seat the pads. Remember piston
> and cylinder honing? Same concept. Back to #1.
> 6) The outside of the rotor actually travels faster then the center. This
> will often create a taper to the rotor surface. Not good for new pads and
> will take some cutting to get straight. Rotor too thin and nothing left
> for wear.
> 7) Rotors that have seen hard use will work and heat harden. Can't be cut,
> only ground. Not many shops can do that.
>
> As for a different pad, the PEM pads are usually the best all around
> compromise. A softer pad will wear faster and in some situations have less
> stopping power. Especially fade resistance. A harder pad will last longer
> but may require more pedal effort and due to the lack of friction, may
> heat up the rotors or worse leave deposits both causing more bouncy
> brakes. I tried so called ceramic pads on my Benz. What a mistake. Has the
> deposit problem. When cold the brakes are fine. Once heated they pulse and
> grab and make noises that can be heard outside. You can see the film and
> some metal transfer on the rotors.
>
> Pads have friction ratings. They are letters such as "EE" of "FF". The
> higher the letter, the more friction. "EE" is a hard, long life pad
> material. "FF" is common. The Vanagon front OEM is "GG". Of course there
> is a ride range in actual performance for a given letter rating. Axxiss
> Metal Masters work well in Vanagons even though they are "EE". I had "EE"
> that simply will not stop.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Dennis
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> neil
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:07 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Riddle me this... Honda Brake question NVC!
>
> Hi all.
>
> So, ok.
>
> A 2004 Accord, original owner (me!) 43K Km's, never had rotors turned,
> front pads at 5%, but NO metal on metal.
>
> Why would the rotors wear to the point of having to be replaced??
>
> I get the feeling they know something I don't (like orig rotors cheap
> product) as they quoted me around $300 for pads/hardware/rotors
> installed. Rotors were $93 ea., so that plus pads etc. AND labour
> maybe should be higher? (I'm not argueing!)
>
> Should I specify a different type of pad next time?
>
> Sorry for attempting to avail myself upon the help of Vanagon people,
> but this has me puzzled.
>
> --
> Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia.
>
> http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
>
>
--
Neil Nicholson. 1981 Air Cooled Westfalia.
http://web.mac.com/tubaneil
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