Date:         Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:06:27 -0800
Reply-To:     Nathaniel Poole <npoole@TELUS.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Nathaniel Poole <npoole@TELUS.NET>
Subject:      Re: Electronic points -waste of time/money?
In-Reply-To:  <4F61582C-6E44-4786-8246-00A1897FFF7D@pottsfamily.ca>
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Hi Greg,

The problem is that when I put the points back in, it runs okay again,
Although I still have that problem of running slow and rough when cold, and
it's not the Aux Air regulator. With that problem, it tends to run okay
unless I give it a bit of gas to make the charge light go out, and it's like
a kick-down cam on a choked carb, the rpms then slowly drop to 500 and the
engine runs rough until warm.

I think my dizzy has problems with the mech advance hanging up, although for
some reason it is worse with the electronic points; rev it up, timing shoots
past the scale, let off the gas and it drops down to 12 degrees and
wandering all over the place. I tap the dizzy, it drops to 0 degrees, the
ignition starts to misfire (you can see it on the strobe timing light, the
ignition isn't firing properly), the engine runs rougher and rougher and the
ignition quits completely and the engine dies. Sometimes when you let off
the gas the ignition just stops completely and the engine dies. When you
restart the engine without revving it, the timing is back to a solid 7.5
again.

I tried adjusting the dwell on the points but no change. Everything is
mounted tight, and there is slack on the wires. I sucked on the vacuum
advance line (new line) and the mechanism moves smoothly

The joy of the timing light is it shows me what the ignition is doing.

I put the old points back in and when I rev it, it goes to twenty-something
degrees advanced, and drops back down to 7.5 at idle, but again, if I tap
the dizzy, timing drops to 0, although the engine doesn't die and the
ignition keeps going.

Is that weird or what? But the tapping changing the timing sounds like dizzy
problems to me, and maybe the electronic system is more sensitive. Note -the
dizzy is tightened down, I'm not changing the timing by moving it :)

Nathaniel


On 1/15/07 6:04 AM, "Greg Potts" <greg@pottsfamily.ca> wrote:

> Hi Nathan,
>
> I don't think it's the ignition. Ignition failure usually occurs at
> high RPMs or under load. Idle is the last place that bad ignition
> will affect.  I don't think it's the distributor either, as If the
> timing was staying advanced it would leave the engine running faster,
> not slower.
>
> I've had a pertronix with carbs and FI and had ZERO issues with it
> over 40,000 miles and 4 years of use.
>
> Your decel valve sounds like a possible culprit here, or possibly the
> vacuum line between it and the fuel pressure regulator.
>
> There are some great resources at www.ratwell.com for dealing with
> aircooled FI. Here's my favorite:
> http://www.ratwell.com/mirror/potts/index.html
>
> A vacuum gauge and a fuel pressure gauge are indispensable when
> troubleshooting FI. You can't do it properly without them, unless
> you're gonna just throw parts at it until the problem goes away. That
> gets expensive REALLY FAST, and often leads into the recurring
> carburetor debate.
>
> Happy Trails,
>
> Greg Potts
> 1973/74/77/79 Westfakia "Bob The Tomato
> www.pottsfamily.ca
>
>
>
> On 12-Jan-07, at 9:51 PM, Nathaniel Poole wrote:
>
>> It starts great and sits there idling at 950 rpm. I rev it, when I
>> let off
>> the gas it slows down and stalls. If I hit the gas again before it
>> reaches
>> idle speed it'll rev again. If I let it go lower than that, the
>> rpms keep
>> dropping until it dies. I start it up again and it idles like it
>> should. I
>> installed the ignition without yanking the dizzy.
>>
>>
>> On 1/12/07 6:38 PM, "Mike S" <mikes@flatsurface.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At 08:52 PM 1/12/2007, Nathaniel Poole wrote...
>>>> Anyone else have a problem with electronic points in the type 4
>>>> motor?
>>>> My
>>>> '80 Vanagon was running great before I installed these points from
>>>> Hot-Spark.com, and now it's doing something weird - it idles
>>>> fine, and
>>>> revs
>>>> fine, but won't idle after revving, just stalls.
>>>
>>> They work fine for me.
>>>
>>> When does it "idle fine?" Only after starting, after it's sit (set?
>>> sat?) a while? If it stalls out, what happens if you start it
>>> immediately without revving?
>>>
>>> Sounds like the advance mechanism isn't returning properly after
>>> revving. Put a timing light on it, rev it by hand, and watch to
>>> see if
>>> it returns to the proper idle timing. Did you leave enough wire
>>> inside
>>> the distributor so the plate can move unrestricted? Do you have the
>>> spring under the distributor which pushes the drive gear down?
>>>
>
>
>