Date:         Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:50:48 -0600
Reply-To:     "Gary Lee, www.vwrack.com" <gary2a@TELUS.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Gary Lee, www.vwrack.com" <gary2a@TELUS.NET>
Subject:      Propane vs CNG Was Propane fueled Vanagons?,
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>I've been pondering the propane conversion for a while. I've always thought
>that two long skinny tanks running the length of the van and replacing the
>existing stove and fridge tank would be ideal. But then I understand that
>compressed natural gas may be a better option for the conversion AND I
>already have natural gas piped right into my garage. All I need is a
>compressor which the make. Now comes the problem with the appliances. Could
>they run on CNG? What kind of conversion would be needed for that?

Below are my random comments and opinions.

The propane vehicle installation code where I live stipulates a minimum
ground clearance.
The last time I looked, 5 years ago, there were no tanks available which
would fit under the vanagon.
Even a syncro was too low.

If memory serves me, the BC provincial government in Canada converted a
bunch of syncro DOKAs to CNG.
This was back when the DOKA was new.  I've seen a few of these trucks pop up
for sale over the years.

There are some significant drawbacks to a CNG vehicle.  A very noticeable
loss of power is one of them, and with the vanagon that is a definite issue.
Most (all?) CNG conversions are done when you can get the fuel for free or
there are substantial tax credits or other incentives involved.

Bi-fuel vehicle conversions only make sense when certain criteria are met.
Off the top of my head:
- The vehicle has to be new or close to it in order to amortize the cost of
the conversion.  $3000 and up for a new vehicle.  The cost recovery is many
miles down the road.
- There are incentives or credits to subsidize the conversion.
- The cost of CNG or LPG is favorable.  Or more correctly, the spread in
price between gasoline or diesel and the alternate fuel is favorable.
- If a later model OBD2 vehicle, you can remap or otherwise adjust ignition
timing for alternate fuel operation.  www.dualcurve.com has products to do
this.

Now it is possible to cobble together the parts and modify them to fit a
vanagon.  This DIY option can be done fairly cheaply, I've done all mine for
a couple hundred dollars and 3 days work.
I did an 86 jetta GLI for $50 once.

A propane conversion is not much different than a CNG conversion, except the
tank and a small adjustment to the 'carb'.

It can be said with confidence that a propane or CNG vanagon is cleaner than
digifant or digijet.  So, if emissions and the environment is your
motivation than you are ahead with those two alternate fuels.
I've known people to convert solely for that reason, any cost per mile
savings was secondary.
I'm not sure how a modern 2006 car stacks up against an older propane system
with feedback.


Gary Lee
volvo 850 turbo wagon, bi-fuel