Date:         Sun, 6 Mar 2005 18:05:56 -0500
Reply-To:     Marc Perdue <marcperdue@ADELPHIA.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Marc Perdue <marcperdue@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject:      Re: gas prices- a canadian perspective
In-Reply-To:  <604230a723192df83195933653006f97@pottsfamily.ca>
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Greg Potts wrote:

> Hi Jim,
>
> I've heard about that study, but have not looked at it in detail. But I
> can tell you this: If you want to know about the legitimacy of a study,
> look at who produced it and who is quoting it. My bets are that the
> study in question was done by the petrochemical industry, and being
> quoted by one of their lobby groups. Any study submitted to the press
> is designed to support an agenda. That's what they're for.
>
Amen to that.

> Personally, I would expect that if ethanol actually cost more energy to
> produce than it contains, the price would reflect that. And I know that
> even *if* current ethanol production techniques are inefficient, that
> doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to stay that way as the
> demand for ethanol increases.
>
The comment regarding pricing isn't necessarily true.  There are so many
economic variables that come into play when determining fuel prices,
including subsidies and multiple incentives of one kind or another, that
the energy cost of producing something is not typically, or at least
proportionally, reflective of what its ultimate price will be.  This
doesn't even take into account the price elasticity of the demand for
the product.

When we were running our plant, we were constantly communicating with
other ethanol producers about what different processes worked and which
didn't.  You are spot on in your assessment that production techniques
will get more efficient.  In the few years that I was there, we improved
the efficiency of the ethanol drying process by 300% over traditional
drying processes . . . and this was almost 20 years ago.

> Carbon added to the atmosphere due to transportation technology doesn't
> care if it's from corn, sugar beets or dead dinosaurs, the end result
> is no different.
>
Others have addressed this, but it totally depends on the form that the
carbon takes, where in the process it occurs, and whether there are
processes in place to deal with that carbon in the production cycle.
For example, is the CO2 produced in ethanol production used or vented to
the atmosphere?  Is the carbon released as CO or CO2, or is it released
as soot?

A few more random thoughts . . .
Marc Perdue