Date:         Sat, 12 Jun 2004 17:29:57 -0700
Reply-To:     Shawn Wright <swright@ZUIKO.SLS.BC.CA>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Shawn Wright <swright@ZUIKO.SLS.BC.CA>
Subject:      Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
In-Reply-To:  <000301c450c3$5424d000$c55f480c@home>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

I've been using single electrode Bosch platinum for about 8 years now (since we bought
the van), which is about 65k kms of driving. The engine now has 225k kms on a VW
rebuild. I've looked at them a few times, and they seem fine, and the van runs well, so
I've left them alone. The next time I plan to change them is when I install glow plugs
(along with a diesel engine... ;-)

On 12 Jun 2004 at 14:22, Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote:

> Sorry Tony, but mine have - well over 100,000 miles.  And when we
> replaced them with new, there was no noticeable difference in fuel
> economy or drivability.  That's one of the reasons I swear by the
> tri-tip plugs, which, incidentally are the plugs VW specifies for my '85
> Westy.
>
> Karl Wolz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
> Of Anthony Polson
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2004 11:58 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
>
> Sorry Bruce,
>
> We will have to disagree.
>
> The Bosch, Beru and NGK multi-electrode plugs have a service life of
> 20,000
> miles.  I don't know where you get 100,000 miles from, but here in
> Europe,
> no-one in their right mind would wait that long to replace their plugs.
>
> I do high mileages in my vehicles and can assure you that the Bosch and
> NGK
> multi-electrode plugs definitely need replacing by 20,000 miles.  By
> then,
> the electrode gaps are begiining to get noticeably bigger, and poor
> starting, misfiring and increased fuel consumptionare beginning to show
> .
> There is no way those plugs would last 100,000 miles and still work.
>
> Tony
>
>
> ----   Original Message   -----
> >Date:    Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:54:41 -0500
> >From:    Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >Subject: Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
> >
> >Poor logic. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this is driven by the
> >vehicle
> >manufacturers. I've been in the business, both inside and outside
> >dealerships, for nearly ten years.
> >
> >In any dealership, you have 3 profit centers - vehicle sale, service,
> and
> >parts. Most manufacturers (domestic and foreign) have a dedicated
> regional
> >parts manager that will visit each dealership on, more or less, a
> monthly
> >basis. They meet with dealership's parts manager to review sales totals
> and
> >goals. They also review programs to promote additional sales. In some
> >cases,
> >parts managers are lavishly rewarded for producing high sales numbers.
> >
> >Manufacturers want to sell parts. That is how they make some of their
> >money.
> >Dealerships owners, likewise, want to sell parts. I have seen
> situations
> >where dealership owners/GMs place tremendous pressure on the parts
> >department to meet parts sales goals that may or may not (more often
> not)
> >be
> >realistic. Frequently, the pay of the parts department staff is based,
> in
> >part, on the total sales volume.
> >
> >You are saying that consumers want less frequent maintenance. I suggest
> you
> >read the archive and see some of the arguments about oil change
> intervals.
> >There is no way around it, oil must be changed every so often. Whether
> dyno
> >or synthetic, it has to be changed. There are people on this list
> >(consumers) that rabidly change their oil more frequently than called
> for
> >by
> >the manufacturer. This isn't just list members either.
> >
> >Manufacturers don't care about how often the vehicles come in for
> service.
> >In fact, each time a care comes in there is an opportunity for an
> upsell.
> >The consumer demand you say is there for less maintenance is actually
> >manifested elsewhere. People just don't want to have to pay for the
> >service.
> >What we are seeing many manufacturers doing now is paying for the
> required
> >scheduled maintenance of the car for the first X number of miles and Y
> >number of years. Service departments love this because they have a
> customer
> >locked in for a given time period. In addition, if they do a good job
> in
> >building a relationship, that customer will continue to come back after
> the
> >free period is over.
> >
> >Consumers, or at least the ones that buy the new cars, just don't want
> the
> >perceived cost of the service. Thus it is hidden in the selling price
> of
> >the
> >car.
> >
> >Go to any new car dealership. Check on the emissions warranty. What do
> you
> >see? 100,000 miles. That is why manufacturers are making plugs that
> last
> >that long. They have to. Is everything warranted to 100,000 miles? On
> the
> >vast majority of cars, the answer is no. However, with emissions
> components
> >it is mandated by the government. Manufacturers have strong incentive
> to
> >sell parts at retail prices to the general public. This is how they
> make
> >their money.
> >
> >By the way, it would be very interesting to hear how often Vanagon
> owners
> >on
> >this list change their spark plugs, regardless of what type is used.
> I'd be
> >shocked if anyone is waiting to do it every 100,000 miles.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Bruce
> >motorbruce
>

--
Shawn Wright
http://Zuiko.sls.bc.ca/swright
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