Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:54:41 -0500
Reply-To: Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Poor logic. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but this is driven by the vehicle
manufacturers. I've been in the business, both inside and outside
dealerships, for nearly ten years.
In any dealership, you have 3 profit centers - vehicle sale, service, and
parts. Most manufacturers (domestic and foreign) have a dedicated regional
parts manager that will visit each dealership on, more or less, a monthly
basis. They meet with dealership's parts manager to review sales totals and
goals. They also review programs to promote additional sales. In some cases,
parts managers are lavishly rewarded for producing high sales numbers.
Manufacturers want to sell parts. That is how they make some of their money.
Dealerships owners, likewise, want to sell parts. I have seen situations
where dealership owners/GMs place tremendous pressure on the parts
department to meet parts sales goals that may or may not (more often not) be
realistic. Frequently, the pay of the parts department staff is based, in
part, on the total sales volume.
You are saying that consumers want less frequent maintenance. I suggest you
read the archive and see some of the arguments about oil change intervals.
There is no way around it, oil must be changed every so often. Whether dyno
or synthetic, it has to be changed. There are people on this list
(consumers) that rabidly change their oil more frequently than called for by
the manufacturer. This isn't just list members either.
Manufacturers don't care about how often the vehicles come in for service.
In fact, each time a care comes in there is an opportunity for an upsell.
The consumer demand you say is there for less maintenance is actually
manifested elsewhere. People just don't want to have to pay for the service.
What we are seeing many manufacturers doing now is paying for the required
scheduled maintenance of the car for the first X number of miles and Y
number of years. Service departments love this because they have a customer
locked in for a given time period. In addition, if they do a good job in
building a relationship, that customer will continue to come back after the
free period is over.
Consumers, or at least the ones that buy the new cars, just don't want the
perceived cost of the service. Thus it is hidden in the selling price of the
car.
Go to any new car dealership. Check on the emissions warranty. What do you
see? 100,000 miles. That is why manufacturers are making plugs that last
that long. They have to. Is everything warranted to 100,000 miles? On the
vast majority of cars, the answer is no. However, with emissions components
it is mandated by the government. Manufacturers have strong incentive to
sell parts at retail prices to the general public. This is how they make
their money.
By the way, it would be very interesting to hear how often Vanagon owners on
this list change their spark plugs, regardless of what type is used. I'd be
shocked if anyone is waiting to do it every 100,000 miles.
Cheers,
Bruce
motorbruce
>From: Anthony Polson <acpolson@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Anthony Polson <acpolson@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 07:57:20 +0100
>
>I find it really amusing when the US federal government gets the blame for
>advances in technology that originated from Germany and Japan!
>
>What has driven the development of multi-electrode plugs is strong
>**consumer** pressure for longer service intervals and lower service costs.
>This pressure is very strong here in Europe and longer service intervals
>are
>therefore a great selling point.
>
>All car manufacturers are under pressure from consumers to minimise the
>number of visits to the workshop, the time spent on each visit and the
>overall cost. This is done by developing consumables such as spark plugs,
>engine oil and filters that have longer service intervals and engine
>managament systems that are self-correcting and don't need regular tuning.
>
>I welcome these changes. I use multi-electrode plugs in all my vehicles
>(85
>1.9 Vanagon, 95 2.6i South African Vanagon and an Audi A6) and use
>synthetic
>oil in the SA Vanagon and the Audi - the SA Vanagon has an Audi-derived
>5-cylinder engine. This way, I get longer service intervals and the costs
>stay low.
>
>There's no conspiracy here, just consumer pressure - and the results are
>worth it.
>
>The fact that multi-electrode plugs weren't around when the Vanagon WBX
>engines were designed is irrelevant. All you need is a good spark and a
>plug with the right physical size and heat rating.
>
>The multi-electrode plugs go for a much longer mileage than single
>electrode
>plugs. They cost a little more, but last much longer then the price
>difference, so they are cheaper overall. The environment gets a bonus in
>that exhaust emissions stay constant for longer.
>
>I know that some people have problems with anything new, and it is right to
>be cautious about using (for example) 100% synthetic oil in an engine that
>wasn't designed for it. But there is nothing to fear from multi-electrode
>plugs - they are a Win/Win/Win.
>
>Tony
>
>
>>Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 14:44:27 -0500
>>From: Bruce Nadig <motorbruce@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>Subject: Re: vanagon single electrode plugs
>>
>>I think that the whole multiple electrode craze is actually driven by the
>>federal government. They are having tighter and tighter emissions
>>standards,
>>and ANY component that may potentially affect emissions must have a longer
>>service life. Right now I think that the feds want parts to last 100,000
>>miles.
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