Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:25:41 -0700
Reply-To: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Robert Keezer <warmerwagen@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Cnvert to I-4 FROM?
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
My experience so far with the 215 mm Diesel Vanagon clutch : it's fine as
long as you don't tow over 2,000 lbs.
and don't drive rough. At least that has been my experience.
Even still i don't tow that much anymore as i ruined a clutch towing a 4,000
lb U-haul loaded with VW engine and trans cores to LA from Seattle.
I was surprised my brakes held out. The wind was so bad on I-5 that i cut
over to the coast and ended up behind hundreds of bicyclists running a road
race on hilly roads north of Maricopa.
I could'nt turn around as they were all riding one way. I would have to go
10 mph uphill behind the mass of riders with the clutch was slipping all the
way.
Not only that, the load put on the 1.8 motor knocked the thrust washers
into the oil pan. It's amazing the engine ran as well as it did.
Later, I hadn't yet learned from that experience. I towed a Vanagon
Westfalia 500 miles - and the clutch was messed up again.
Last summer I put in a new clutch. I asked around to see if there are other
options-none-so 215 mm is it .
A smoking 5 mm wider than the Golf-Jetta clutch disc/plate.
Robert K
1982 Westfalia
robert k
1982 Westfalia
----Original Message Follows----
From: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
Reply-To: David Marshall <vanagon@VOLKSWAGEN.ORG>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Cnvert to I-4 FROM?
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 13:26:09 -0700
The issue with the 215mm clutch is, on modern engines like the TDI or the
1.8T you have in excess of 200Nm of torque at 1800 RPM - the 215mm was
designed for about 70Nm so you are doubling the torque and at a lot lower
RPM as well. Very hard on the clutch and the transmission too if you are
not careful.
David Marshall
Fast Forward Automotive Inc.
4356 Quesnel-Hixon Road
Quesnel BC Canada V2J 6Z3
http://www.fastforward.ca mailto:sales@fastforward.ca
Phone: (250) 992 7775 FAX: (250) 992 1160
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-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of Robert Keezer
Sent: April 27, 2004 11:20 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Easiest Platform to Cnvert to I-4 FROM?
I know this- but we weren't talking syncros here? Obvious oversight-my bad.
Yes- I concur- if a Syncro or auto,a plate is protocol. What's the problem
with 51 degrees? Too cold?
It fits under the lid like VW intended( double and single cabs have no
problem with 15 degree)
Finally, if the parts you can most easily obtain are 15 or 51, that's what I
mean by practical.
Plenty of outside observers already don't think we are practical for even
owning a Vanagon if you have to change the motor.We are part of an extreme
subgroup that would buy a car, put an other than original engine in it and
call it good.
So practical in the sense that you may not have all the time and money to go
far and long for the perfect conversion when the local junyard has the
Diesel parts you need for 500.00. Reasonable price , reasonable parts.
The Clutch- I'm not an expert- it's only a 215 mm. Less contact area ,
greater grip?, easier to burn up?
Made for a 48 hp Diesel. I only ruined one by towing a 4,000 lb trailer.
i only tow lightly now- it works fine.
There are only a few of you who would'nt trade me on the spot ,your Westy
for mine,after you took mine for a spin.
Even though it's a 82, and 115 hp isn't that much- the 2.0 ABA Motronic
engine I have is a far cry over the WBX.
(just for saying this my engine will blow up tomorrow)
Yes- I used to drive my VW with a paranoia that had struck deep after 15
years.
Now, i even forget there is a engine at times.
I can't even forget where the water is flowing five years after dug up part
of the drain field and replaced the "d" box.
Yes, before there was X here was D.
Robert
1982 Westfalia
"Since this is all VW- it makes sense to use it. Only automatics need a
adapter plate."
This is just not true. A diesel bell housing will not
fit in a Syncro. You can replace the fuel tank to make it fit,
but in this case, anything will fit anything. It also will not
allow an inline to be install at any other angle other than 51 deg.,
unlike a KEP set up.
Rob, your clutch pressure plate and fylwheel is smaller
than the stock 2.1L engines. You think this is better?.
I think you better take back the personal preference part?
As for cost it my be cheaper. Definately better.
Eric
Robert Keezer wrote:
>Eric wrote:
>
><<The "Best" way" is a KEP adapter. With this you get a bigger
>clutch. Diesel bell housing is only avaliable at 51 Deg. installation.
>unlike the KEP adapter. Air cooled tranaxle will do you not good.>>
>
>Ok- this is a just person's preference or a requirement if converting an
>automatic, not the "best "advice. The best advice is do what ever is most
>practical for you.
>
>There is nothing wrong with the Diesel type conversion- I have had one for
>8
>years. The Diesel parts can be hard to find.
>
>What makes the Diesel style nice is it keeps the engine below the lid.
>
>The Diesel transaxle has a lower final drive which slows down the car so
>the
>trick is to bolt the bellhousing to your air-cooled or watercooled Vanagon
>transmission for better cruising rpm.
>
>All the inline-fours VW made til 1999 will bolt up to a Diesel Vanagon
>bellhousing.
>
>Since this is all VW- it makes sense to use it. Only automatics need a
>adapter plate.
>
>The air-cooled transmission has the best cruising final drive ratio for
>fule
>economy but if you need more torque, use a WBX trans.
>
>Bear in mind that there are a lot of details involved and no two can be
>done
>the same- there will be problems to solve specific to your installation
>that
>you can't read about.
>
>The basics for a Diesel type are: firewall clearancing, the swapping of
>parts from Diesel engine and trans to gas engine and trans,exhaust
>system,air intake, and the splicing in the engine harness .
>
>My first one took 3 months working a few hours a day and weekends.
>
>Currently running a '95 Golf 2.0 Motronic.
>
>Robert
>
>1982 Westfalia
>
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>T Berk wrote:
>
>>I understand it's the Diesel transaxle that makes it possible to use an
>>inline four block in Vanagons.
>>
>>With that in mind, is it any easier to start with an early air cooled or
>>later water cooled Vanagon and just adding the nessesary parts?
>>
>>Or is starting w/ a diesel Vanagon the best way to end up with a two
>>liter inline-4 block?
>>
>>
>>tia,
>>TBerk
>>
>>
>
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>
Robert
1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg
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Robert
1982 Westfalia 1987 Wolfsburg
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