Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 20:01:30 -0500
Reply-To: Sam Walters <sam.cooks@VERIZON.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Sam Walters <sam.cooks@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: battery questions
In-Reply-To: <4349C090-8374-11D8-A3CB-0030657B8366@ups.edu>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
Attached are a few text files that I cut out of posts to the list about
the same sort of problem. They might help.
Sam
--
Sam Walters
Baltimore, MD
89 Syncro GL
85 Westy Weekender
84 Vanagon, original owner, soon to be retired, just too many problems
All incoming and outgoing email scanned by
automatically updated copy of Norton AntiVirus.
Check for source of battery drain
sstones@DIRECT.COM
Well...
One way to start into tracking it down would be to pull each fuse out and
check the amperage across the clips with a multi-meter. Compare the ones
that have significant amperage to the wiring diagram to try to guess for
likely suspects, and narrow it down from there seeing what things do and
don't have a positive voltage beyond their switches or relays.
hradek@YAHOO.COM
Steve,
make it simple. Pull the fuse to the
radio,clock and lighter and see if the problem goes
away without that fuse. This is the only circuit
that is always on? gary
bearsvw2000@YAHOO.COM
Take the fuse out to the clock, loosen the positive
terminal on the battery, wait till dark or darken the
battery area. Take the positive terminal and check for
a spark, getting that, start pulling the circuit's
fuses untill you loose the spark, this will be the
circuit to check for a ground. This can also be done
with a meter in line with the battery to check for a
amp drop when the area of the problem is isolated. Phil
Doktor Tim's Battery Alternator Check
To proof your battery and charging system follow these steps and skip none
if you don't want to waste money on what it isn't.
1. Verify both ends of both batt cables are clean and tight. Same for the
ground strap at the front tranny mount.
2. Verify the battery top and case is clean and dry.
3. Verify battery is fully charged. You need an accurate VOM for this and
all the following.
4. Turn the key to on then turn on the bright headlights and blowers and
watch as the volts drop to about 12.3v. Then turn everything off and watch
the volts rebound to 12.6+ within a minute or two. If it drops lower than
12.3 within a minute or so, the battery is weak. If it will not rebound to
at least 12.6 it is also weak. If the battery passes this test then you can
use the bucks you would have wasted on replacing a good battery to go to
eBay and buy a quality $200 multimeter for the price of a good extra duty
group 41 battery.
5. Only now are you ready for a test of the alternator. At idle, place one
lead on the batt + and the other on the alt output. If you read more than
1/2 volt you have a problem with resistance in the wiring to the battery.
Recheck the big lug connections at the starter for clean and tight. If you
have less than 1/2volt drop, hook up the multimeter to batt + and - while
idling. Should see 13.8 or so with no other loads. Turn on the brights and
blowers. At idle should not drop below 13.3v. Rev to 2000+ and with the
loads should not be less than 13.5v. Lower numbers say replace the weak
alternator, but before you do, replace the indicator bulb. An old bulb can
have resistance that will not keep the alternator excited.
Over 95% of the time these steps will identify your problem and you won't
waste a cent on good parts. The 5% is related to some very occasional
issues of strange battery behavior. Battery continually tests good but let
it sit for a few days and low charge. I have seen these strange batteries a
few times, and several that were new and had these strange faults from the
get go. If I have truly verified all steps as above and still have issues,
then I will disconnect the battery, put a full charge on it, load test and
watch rebound come back good, then let it rest for several days while
monitoring. If it drops more than a 1/2 volt in a week, then the battery is
weak. A dirty battery top will always fail this test from losses due to
cross cell flow through the dirt/acid conductor all over the case.
Easy squeezy test for cross cell flow. Connect multimeter + to batt +.
Touch multimeter - to various places around the battery top. If you see a
few tenths of a volt, not bad. If you see more than 1 volt, the case is not
clean. I have many times seen 8 to 12 volts cross cell flow on filthy
batteries. This sucks the life out of the battery, alternator and starter
and the continuous loss of amps means everybody must work under much higher
stress. You get no work from those lost amps and you must pay extra in lost
life of components to replace them.
After all these items have been verified and you still have a draw issue,
then begin looking for other items drawing amps in excess.
Checking alternator and for short discharging battery
Take care to be safe while doing any of these suggestions!
Simple ways to check things out without :
Start engine and remove vehicle's positive lead from battery. DON'T short to
frame or let lead touch frame!
If it continues to run alternator is working. Increase draw by turning on
additional electrical units, headlights on high, a/c blower on high,
continue with other things, if it kills the engine. Voltage regulator is not
working properly.
If you believe you have a short in a system somewhere. Turn everything
(lights, radio, etc) off first. In the dark unplug your fuses and replace
them while watching for any sparks (do this with the engine running, then
with it off but the key on and last with key off).
Radio's, clock's and such, usually only give a little spark, shorts that are
draining your battery should be brighter. However don't put it past them to
be the problem. If you don't find any other sparks, leave their fuse out and
see if the battery still dies.
The same thing with the alternator, with the engine OFF! Removing or
replacing the battery terminal on the alternator, should NOT spark.
Last year I worked on a (16 year old, know-it-all) kids pickup. After HE
installed a new starter, the truck began to stall but would start right back
up. This would happen when he'd make sharp turns, hit large bumps or take
off fast. So he decided the truck needed a new battery. I offered to check
it out but he (bosses live-in's boy) knew that it just needed a new battery,
fine...The problem continued the next day but this time it left him stranded
on the road. He had it towed home, where it sat for a few days (he was the
only one smart enough to work on it).
My boss grew tired of dropping him off at school and told me to check it
out, but the kid would do all the repairs himself.
Lifting the hood, I saw the bulging NEW ($102.00 only the best for his
truck) frozen(mid November) battery. I pulled the positive lead (battery out
of circuit) off the battery and was connecting the cables. They sparked as
if I was welding. Yanking them off. I traced the positive wire down and
under the manifold but could not see it. So sliding my hand along the wire I
felt it welded to the manifold.
Don't be afraid to ask, take the time to do it right and save yourself a lot
of trouble later.
So, if you can't check out your alternator take it to someone who can.
Paul
oliver8@TDS.NET
