Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:59:32 -0600
Reply-To: Larry Chase <lchase@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Larry Chase <lchase@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject: Roadhaus - 2.2L Engine Install , Prelimanary Report / Response
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Volks,
Thanks to All who responded to this thread and for the thoughtful ,
passionate debate.
Its my belief that the "Light of Day" always flushes out the best
information.
Lets put those high beams in the dark corners and see what we learn.
Interestedly ....... only "ONE" person contacted me directly.
In my original posting I noticed one "TYPO"
CLIPPING OF ORIGINAL POST >>>>
Engine Stats:
Engine: 2.2L 135HP Euro Cars of Denver
Note ... used original core with 160k on it.
Install Completed: 10.13.02
Output HP: 115hp@4800rpm
Torque: 135 ft lbs.
Displacement: 2220 cc
Stroke: 76.20mm
Bore: 95 mm
Compression: 10 to 1
FIRST LINE SHOULD HAVE READ
Engine: 2.2L 115HP Euro Cars of Denver
I did accuratley state the HP under "Output HP: 115hp@4800rpm" and hope
the typo didn't cause any confusion.
Although I have enjoyed all the posts .... Ken Wilfords and a few others
brought up a few points I wanted to address.
Very important .... please understand,
I AM NOT A GEAR HEAD AND DON'T PLAY ONE ON THE VANAGON.COM LIST :)
My observations are purely from an end user seat of the pants perspective.
Talking Points >>>>>
Seat of the Pants Impressions:
Background ..... the engine I had rebuilt, if I remember the receipts
correctly ... had around 20k miles on it after a rebuild.
I picked the Van up in LA on Sept 11th and drove it up through the Bay Area
and over the mountains via Reno to Denver. Around 1200 miles.
I was impressed with the stock 2.1L engine .... of course I had to down
shift into third a fair amount coming over the mountains and across the
various hills along the way.
By the time I arrived in Denver I was feeling guilty about taking an Engine
that was performing perfectly fine and rebuilding it. In my humble opinion,
this engine had another 50,000 - 60,000 miles of life in her.
Felt strong and certainly more powerful than my 85 Westy's 1.9L engine.
Fast forward to the trip Denver to Dallas after the 2.2L conversion.
Several comments were about perception of increased performance improvement
and how after spending x amount of dollars anyone wants to feel improvement
so much, they image it.
This I know to be a true phenomena.
My point of view is "You betcha" I think some percentage of my perceived
performance improvement is due to this.
However, I'm very comfortable in saying ..... a larger percentage is true
seat of the pants perceived engine performance improvement.
She accelerates quicker and runs at higher cruising speeds easily.
Please don't beat on me for running her too hard ... just followed the
Engine Builders Break-In advice.
After all .. he's supplying the warranty.
Dyno Testing:
What the heck do I know .... but I think this is a valid point.
I can say ... it's my understanding that Euro Cars has this is in the works.
As one poster pointed out .... need to make sure it's apples to apples
testing.
So come on Ken ..... let's put this on the fast track :)
Head to Head Dyno Testing.
Ken Wilford made this brilliant suggestion >>>> if the parties can agree on
test parameters for a fair comparison.
More fruit i.e...... Apples to Apples.
I assume it becomes somewhat complex to identify sameness .... but if
possible, this would truly be interesting.
Perhaps an easier platform to establish sameness would be a 2WD
configuration.
But if not, I'll gladly make my 1990 Syncro Westy available.
Ken & Bob >>>> what do you say?
Why Did I Install a Euro Cars 2.2L Engine:
When I was going thru the decision process on which engine to install ... I
asked and as usual got very helpful information and suggestions from the
lists.
After deciding (right or wrong) to stick with a more stock install (debug
time and for ease of the road parts and repair) I narrowed the choices down
to three possibilities.
My OBJECTIVE was MORE ON RELIABILITY THAN PERFORMANCE INCREASE.
Boston Engine
AVP
Euro Cars
Frankly I believe either of these would have been a good choice .....
although admit to favoring Boston Engine & Euro Cars.
In one of my first conversations with Euro Cars I explained the details of
my trip "Drive Around North America Continuously For a Year or More"
travelling maybe 50,000+ miles in total.
Ken, at Euro Cars .... was very excited about the possibility of having his
engine subjected to such a extensive "Live Road Test". I actually cautioned
Ken and tried to moderate his enthusiasm a bit ..... by reminding him that
it's possible a few eyes would be on this trip and if his engine didn't
perform all the world would be in the co-pilots seat.
Ken didn't blink .... in fact he was so confident in his product he made a
proposal.
- Waived the normal 12,000 mile warranty and extended it for the duration of
the trip, could exceed 50,000 miles.
- If there was a Catastrophic Fail of the Engine (stuff happens) ... he
would Fed-Ex me a new engine, at his expense.
- And ....... understood that I would be factually reporting on my
perception of the performance of the engine ... Good or Bad.
"Lets put those high beams in the dark corners and see what we learn"
I was impressed and at that point decided to use them for my Engine
Solution.
I sincerely hope this information and future postings will be useful.
If anyone has meaningful ways a Non Gear Head like me could measure the
performance of this engine and remove some of the subjectivity, I'd be very
interested in suggestions.
I believe there is NO "One Size Fits All" answer to the question .... Which
is the Best Engine.
It all depends on ones needs and objectives.
Hitting the Trail Soon,
Larry Chase
Email: lchase@attglobal.net
Web: www.roadhaus.com - Under Construction
What: The Great North American Road Trip
When: 01.02.03
How: RoadHaus - 1990 2.2 L VW Westfalia Syncro
Today: Dallas, TX - Front AC Install
From: Mesa, AZ
- - - -
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:59:22 -0400
From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Roadhaus - 2.2L Engine Install , Preliminary Report
>Second, if you have several of these engines in folks vans, then how
hard would it be to take one to a dyno and have it tested? Especially
since Larry and going to be travelling all over the US. We could
arrange some type of test along the way that would satisfy everyone.
Then we would see if the EC claims are real, or just something they
copied from a european VW manual. It would even better to have Larry's
van and a stock Vanagon (perhaps even with one of Bob's engines in it)
get tested on the dyno the same day (that way you are factoring out
elevation level, dyno error, etc).
What do you say?<