Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:17:11 -0400
Reply-To: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Kenneth Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: 86 fuel filter fix and frustrations...
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20020927173357.008060d0@mail.c-zone.net>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I bow to the wisdom of Ron and Jim, however I think they are both as
confused as I was with this issue. I sent Andrew the filter that everyone
is quick to say is the proper one. 133 133 511. I always have these in
stock as well and they work on most '80-84 Vanagons (again it is best to
look under there to see what you have before you order as VW did some wierd
stuff). Anyway I think the problem that I had and that you folks are having
that is causing the confusion is that when you hear the description "square
fuel filter" you are automatically assuming (as I did) that Andrew is
talking about the 133 133 511 filter. However he is not. On some '86 and
'87 Vanagons VW put on a square looking filter before the fuel pump that has
the same sized inlet and outlet. If you check the ETKA you will see this
filter but when you click on it, the screen says "no longer available" and
tells you to replace this filter with a piece of hose. So you have two ways
to go with this problem. You can do what VW says and replace this filter
with a piece of hose, or you can take the old filter around with you to
NAPA, Advance Auto, etc. until you can find something that might work. But
then you have to ask yourself why VW discontinued the filter before the
pump? There was probably a reason.
Just FYI.
Thanks,
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
http://www.vanagain.com
Phone: (856)-327-4936
Fax: (856)-327-2242
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]On Behalf
Of The Old Volks Home
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 8:34 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: 86 fuel filter fix and frustrations...
At 08:00 AM 9/27/02 -0600, Andrew Fox wrote:
>Westydriver,
>
>I am sorry to say that your information is wrong. I think that you are
>refering to the bosch 71028 filter that is used on many vanagons but not
>on some that were produced in 86. I have been to the parts counter at the
>dealer and FLAPS and spent lots of time on the phone with Ken at Vanagian
>both tell me it is impossible to find this filter for the 86. If it makes
>any difference mine has AC too. Where did you get your information that
>this is the commonly available filter that you mention?
*************************************
Vanagon Fuel Filters Lesson 101 ;-)
OK, OK, let's settle down now and I'll give ya the straight "skinny" on
this subject, which has been discussed from time to time on this list.
The filter in question is actually a Bosch 71013 (Old 0450 901 005),
commonly available from guys described by Westydriver (well, maybe Ken at
Vanagain can't get any, but I can't imagine why, the local Bosch
Distribution Center in Ontario, CA has about 500 or so). It's also
available from Wix (33274) and Fram (G3743). Gee whiz, Fram is sold
practically EVERYWHERE (although I would never use their Oil Filters) and
I've used all of the 3 brands above with no problems. Oh yeah, the VW # is
133-133-511 and is currently available @ $10.95 from them. It's
square-shaped, etc.. It even fits 76-79 FI Buses and 75-79 Beetles &
Convertibles too. And herein lies symptoms of the problem for the guy(s)
and gal(s) at the dealer not knowing about said filter.
See, the problem lies with VW in that they exercised poor follow-through
when they updated their Microfiche plates and eventually into the ETKA,
which in this particular parts group area (especially with Vanagons), is an
abomination to say the least. They can't find it anymore in the ETKA and
unless you've got an old timer working in the parts department, they ain't
gonna know about it! Here's how it originally was for Fuel Filter
applications before VW screwed it up:
Fuel Filter BETWEEN the tank and fuel Pump: 133-133-511
This filter had a 8mm inlet (for the 7mm hose from the tank) and a 12mm
outlet (for the 11mm hose between the filter and fuel pump). This filter
was used on California Models from 80-85. On Federal Models, this filter
*may* have been installed, but most were not, utilizing an 8x12mm reducer
(or enlarger however you want to view it) - VW # 251-201-534A which goes
for a whopping $42.35(!). Heck you can go down to the local
hardware/plumbing shop and get a brass reducer (1/4" x 1/2") that can do
the job for a couple a bucks. 86-91 models continued to used the
reducer/enlarger, but this filter can be retrofitted. What was the purpose
of this "pre" filter? To prevent junk from getting into the rotary-vane
fuel pump installed at the time. Bosch (and Pierberg, an alternate OE
supplier,) finally got smart along the way and newer replacement 81-85
pumps (and 86-91 OE equipped vehicles' pumps) they had put a screen in the
inlet, thus negating the need (from VW's viewpoint,) of requiring this
filter. (NOTE: The inlet of the fuel has always been 12mm - if you're
running a fuel pump 8mm inlet and outlet, you've got the wrong pump
installed). Still, itsa good idea to use this filter before the fuel pump,
because screens only do so much. My 84 Westy came with this filter and
even with the new pump I installed in '97, I still use it. They're cheep
enough to replace every other oil change. I say again, VW, Bosch, Wix,
Fram, et al has NOT discontinued this filter.
The 11mm hose can be a b*tch to find. But like previously stated, 1/2"
Fuel-Rated hose can be used and it's nothing special because no pressure is
present because it's BEFORE the fuel pump.
Now the other filter Andrew Fox was talking about, the Bosch 71028 (Old
0450 905 030), the round metal cannister, that's installed AFTER the fuel
pump. It has 8mm inlet and outlet for the 7mm fuel hose. These were
generally installed on every year of a gasoline powered Vanagon (and on 79
California Buses too). So some Vanagons had two filters - one plastic
square and one metal round. And some Vanagons had just the round metal.
For VW # fanatics, the round metal was 251-201-511A, but has been recently
superseded by VW to 1H0-201-511 - itsa little smaller in diameter, but
works OK (I have one of these on my 84 Westy). The ones currently from
Bosch (71028) are still the same ones originally sized. BTW, you can buy
these from Wix (33161 or 33179) or Fram (G3746).
The reason I mention Wix and Fram numbers are for the benefit of a Vanagon
owner who doesn't ready access to an OE VW/Bosch and needs a filter right
now. I've run all these brands in my Westy, it's just the Wix/Fram units
do cost more, so be aware.
And Ken at Vanagain - check the local warehouse with these mfr numbers,
they've got to have the square plastic ones somehow...........
Class adjourned
JIm
84 Westy 2.1
"Ole Putt"
68 Beetle
"Xavier"
73 Ghia Coupe
"The Last Project"
jimt@oldvolkshome.com
jim96003@c-zone.net
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