Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:45:09 -0700
Reply-To: Dan Snow <dieselvanagon@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dan Snow <dieselvanagon@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ultimate Fix #2
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I nominate this guy for President of The United States
Daniel Snow
PhD Student
UC Berkeley
'82 Vanagon Diesel
'78 Puch Maxi Luxe Moped
'72 Motobecane Mobylette Moped
'01 Xootr Scooter
>From: Alpha Auto Sales <vanagon@ALPHAAUTOSALES.NET>
>Reply-To: vanagon@ALPHAAUTOSALES.NET
>To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>Subject: Ultimate Fix #2
>Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:26:33 -0700
>
> Vanagon cooling system bleeding.
>
> I've read the factory recommended method of cooling system bleeding,
>done it many times, many years ago. What a joke! I tried to imagine Quito
>and Alfred driving rows of Vanagons up a ramp in Hanover with a 15 inch
>rise
>on it, then yelling back and forth in Yugoslavian or Hungarian, maybe both,
>all the while coolant spills all over, steam billowing, but this is the
>factory,
>so of course there is a recovery gutter underneath. I think not.
> Then I read a method of using vacuum to suck coolant through a cooling
>system in a tech journal and tried it. No Joy. Fabricating a fitting to
>attach where the bleeder screw goes was fruitless, simply no clearance
>above
>the bleed hole and the upper radiator mount. Besides, my hand got awfully
>tired operating my hand pumped Mity Vac. And the vacuum was broken when
>disconnecting the marginal fitting I did come up with, no way to maintain
>the column of water (coolant) pressure on removal.
> I then realized a pressure bleed system was more likely what the
>factory
>used, how to implement??
> The first version used shop air regulated down to 5 psi through a
>pressure regulator, feeding pressurized coolant in a 5 gallon bottled water
>bottle through the hose fitting on the pressure cap. Worked well enough,
>still took 45 minutes or so, but on return to the shop after a weekend, the
>bottle had cracked dumping several gallons of 50/50 Autobahn coolant and
>water on the shop floor. I hate when that happens. The next version was
>built in a Gerry (sp?) Can and worked fine until a less savvy co-worker
>decided the process could happen faster without the regulator and connected
>160 psi shop air directly to the Gerry Can. Quick action averted disaster,
>the only damage was a severely swollen Gerry can, but clearly this was not
>the safest method, DON'T TRY IT AT HOME!!
>
> Years later after moving to another shop, the Gerry Can was no longer
>available, nor was the owner interested in funding the fabrication of
>another since VW's were not the main focus of business. I needed another
>method, another one that worked quickly, easily and cleanly.
> I hope this link works, if not, search the Matco site for "funnel" and
>you'll find it, you are looking for the "Spill Free Funnel"
>http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&cat=2270&page=1&
>#29488
> I had purchased the above listed funnel and found it almost
>indispensable for cooling system filling on most makes of cars, but of
>course it won't fit a VW. But I had long ago bought the proper adapter,
>http://www.matcotools.com/Catalog/toolcatalog.jsp?cattype=T&select=&cat=2153
>, here you are looking in the "Cooling System Adapters" section for the
>"RADIATOR ADAPTER -VW, AUDI", but I am sure you bargain hunter, DIY types
>already have this tool for dealing with the ridiculous Vanagon cooling
>system.
>( please note, the URLs above are in no way meant to be a plug or
>endorsement
>for
>MATCO Tools. The same or similar tools can likely be found elsewhere.)
>(THIS is
>a plug!! I rate MATCO right up there with Snap-On as equal but different. I
>expect your opinion may differ, I need no flames.)
> Anyway, drill two small holes across the top diameter of the funnel
>for
>a welding rod or coat hanger for a hanging support. Hang it from the upper
>lip of the rear lid opening. A trip to the hardware store will get you a 2
>foot or so piece of hose to extend the funnel above the adaptor you have
>screwed to the expansion tank, this hose can be a simple snug, slip fit, no
>clamps needed or desired, jack the front the recommended 15 inches (or
>whatever
>the spec is), making sure the top of the funnel is higher than the bleeder
>hole
>up front, and
>fill the system with the engine off. When air stops flowing from the
>bleeder, close the system and drive to operating temperature. Should the
>temp
>gauge
>climb rapidly to the top within the first mile or so, you have an air
>pocket
>at the thermostat, simply shut off the engine and re-start, it will usually
>clear, the temp gauge will return to normal. Back to your workspace and top
>off the expansion and overflow bottles.
>
> A related side note, if you should have your thermostat in hand, drill
>ONE 1/8" hole in the "hat" section of the main body of the thermostat as a
>bleed hole to allow air bubbles to pass easily. On diesels and early
>Wasserboxers, position this hole nearest possible in the upright position,
>later model 'stats lay horizontal, so the position matters not.
>
> I remain puzzled as to why VW decided to abandon the slick brake
>bleeder
>type bleed screw found on the diesels if favor of the removable 8mm bolt
>found on the Wasserboxers.
>
> Re: Ultimate Fix #1, I typo'd the year of the Good Dr. *****'s Synchro
>as a 1996, I meant to type 1986, though it may have been a 1987, I can't
>recall. These Microsoft compatible keyboards have a habit of continually
>moving the keys as I type. I was further flamed by Ben T in a "for you eyes
>only" private e-mail about my spelling of "Synchro". Sorry all, it is not
>my
>mis-spelling, rather the intentional illiteracy of some VW marketing hack,
>I
>really can't be bothered with such minutiae. Ben T further questioned my
>credibility, that post and this speak for themselves.
>
> I gotta get more coffee now while I ponder a possible topic for
>another
>post.
>
>_____________________________________________
>
>Addendum, written several days later:
>
> The problem these tools and procedure address is the need for the
>bleeder
>hole in the radiator to be the highest point in the system so that bubbles,
>hopefully all of them will rise there and escape, is compounded by the
>filler
>being lower than the bleeder making the coolant naturally flow out of the
>filler. So VW came up with that ridiculous solution you read in the manuals
>of
>running the engine and therefore the pump to force the coolant forward and
>up.
>This long funnel procedure accomplishes the same without running the
>engine,
>needing an assistant, and all the attendant heat,noise and spill mess.
> Any solution you can devise hardware wise that extends the filler
>higher
>than the bleeder while the bleeder remains higher than any other part of
>the
>cooling system will accomplish the same. I included the URLs to the funnel
>and
>pressure tester adapter to show the tools helpful to anyone doing this work
>on a
>regular basis.
> Frankly, I strongly recommend that anyone owning a Vanagon and self
>servicing it own a standard Stant brand pressure tester set, or equivalent,
>along with the adaptors for both the bottle threads and for the cap. As a
>professional, all major services on all liquid cooled vehicles get a
>thorough
>cooling system test, the pressure test being the most fundamental along
>with
>hydrometer readings. I haven't used one yet, but I hear the refractometers
>are
>even better, certainly they are far more expensive. Recommended best
>procedure
>would be to change the coolant annually, please be responsible and recycle
>appropriately.
> Seems that if one could raise the front to the height that would get
>the
>bleeder and filler EXACTLY the same height might work well too, but it
>would be
>a lot of work to measure out unless you had a perfectly level work surface.
>
>_________________________
>
> Since I've been Mike Millered in advance, I can really only offer
>speculation about his higher temp gauge readings following a coolant change
>in
>his Wastepalia Psyco.
> I learned the hard way many years back that an Audi 5000 Turbo runs 20
>degrees F hotter on straight coolant than on a proper 50/50 mix. While
>coolant
>is certainly necessary to raise the boiling point and prevent corrosion, it
>isn't the best at taking and dissipating heat, therefore the mix. My guess
>is
>that diluted coolant weaker than 50/50 may actually cool better than a
>correct
>mix, so the stuff you dumped cooled better than fresh, ONLY guessing here
>folks
>and presenting as such.
> I have observed this same phenomenon in Vanagoons many times, the temp
>gauge
>reading one or two needles width higher following a coolant change with no
>ill
>effects. Seems my Westy (A REAL Westy from the Westmoreland plant in PA!!)
>does
>the same. Hmm, my gauge is running a little lower than normal, perhaps it's
>time
>for fresh coolant!!
>
>
>
>Please no direct replies, use the list, I may reply privately.
>
>Sincerely,
>Ron Austin
>webmaster@alphaautosales.net
>'79 Westmoreland Rabbit
>'71 Chevy C-20
>'74 Gitane Pista
>'98 Specialized Allez
>Jeep Dreams
>
>
>p.s. http://www.alphaautosales.net/vanagon90/index.htm is still
>available........
>p.p.s. I'm still not in Sales, I'm only the webmaster..........
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