Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 18:02:47 -0700
Reply-To: Daniel Schmitz <djs@gene.com>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Daniel Schmitz <djs@gene.com>
Organization: Genentech, Inc.
Subject: Re: IMO: engine Converting = Ignorance of what is outthere...
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This is one of those threads that doesn't have a right or wrong side to be on,
just different perspectives. (sort of like religious or political beliefs: none
wrong, all valid for the individual, and some more popular than others)
I would tend to agree with Karl and Robert though, especially when the issue of
cost vs. benefit is factored in. If I was contemplating a conversion, I'd want
significantly more power and even better economy out of the deal, advantages
that can justify the several thousands in cost of a typical conversion, not to
mention possible problems down the road stemming from that conversion.
As it stands, I find the 95 hp of the 2.1L wbx to be entirely adequate for 95%
of my driving situations. I could use a bit more power in certain circumstances,
and gas mileage is certainly nothing to brag about, but I think these are rather
amazing little engines based on how they perform and what they have to move. And
they seem to be well matched to the van and extremely well designed and
engineered for the application. I also understand that the later manual
transmissions in the Vanagon are not quite as robust as earlier designs, so
adding a lot of power and torque from a conversion may lead to premature trans
problems.
I may even research some of Robert's "bolt on" enhancements for my '87
Westfalia. The rocker arm upgrade in particular sounds enticing....
Dan
Karl Wolz wrote:
> Whenever this thread pops up, and I hear folks complaining about the lack of
> power in their vans, I wonder how many of them are running properly.
>
> I know that when I put in my current engine, it ran like a dog. The muffler
> was packed with bits of disintegrated converter; the vacuum advance didn't;
> It needed a O2 sensor, and it seems there were two or three other problems.
> Now that those are sorted out, it's running just fine. There is enough
> torque to get off the line, and to climb any hill I have any business being
> on. It's top end is around 70 mph - maybe not enough for some, but enough
> for me (I haven't gotten a speeding ticket in quite some time).
>
> I'm not saying that to put in a Subaru engine is wrong; I just wonder how
> many are doing it for the wrong reasons!
>
> Karl Wolz
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert Lilley" <Wolfvan88@aol.com>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 4:12 PM
> Subject: IMO: engine Converting = Ignorance of what is out there...
>
> > I think that those who want convert to another engine generally are
> looking for a "quick fix" to their engine problems and are just IGNORANT of
> what is out there for the VW Vanagon in T4 and WBX engine performance
> enhancements that work and LAST.
> >
> > While there are a few Vanagon owners that like the challenge of swapping
> and the lifetime of tinkering to “make it right”, many others
> want to put an engine in that solves your needs and forget it.
> >
> > If you want to put an engine in and "forget it" Read on otherwise you can
> stop here, you could be offended...
> >
> >
> > The main problem with VW’s T1 to WBX engines is the lack of power.
> This has been so since the Beetle began. The problem has since been
> addressed and FIXED by many Performance companies. A T1 engine can be made
> to have 200+ HP and live over 200,000 miles (see www.geneberg.com), some
> street engines have 450 HP in a VW Beetle! There are some junk performance
> parts out there so beware!
> >
> > The power problem or lack of, in the WBX is due to the FI system and the
> way VW tuned it not so much as the size. 2.1L T1 engines can be made to
> have @ 150 to 200+ hp depending on FI setup used.
> >
> > There are MANY performance enhancements for the T4 engine:
> > Larger cams, Larger valve sizes, better mufflers, headers, carbs, FI
> systems, larger pistons, stroker and counterweighted cranks, porting, NOS
> systems, superchargers, turbo systems, balancing, solid lifters (allows you
> to pushes RPMS PAST 6k up TO 10,000 RPMs) and others.
> >
> > There are many performance enhancements for the WBX engines also:
> > They range from mild to wild, bolt on to modifications needed; there is
> even a FACTORY 2.5L BOLT on Kit for the WBX engine.
> > The costs for many of these upgrades are far cheaper than those for the I4
> engines.
> >
> > The power in the I4 kits is generally the same or actually less than the
> WBX in stock form and will need some tweaking just to get more performance.
> A bigger cam is over $250. Exhaust headers are $500+ (There might be cheaper
> but are not good) I4 parts are expensive…
> >
> >
> > I wanted to build a WBX engine that was:
> > 1) Basically a rebuild: not changing original dimensions
> > 2) Can be reproduced easily
> > 3) Have increased power
> > 4) Elimination of know problems
> > 5) Increased reliability
> > 6) Increased life
> > 7) Increased efficiency/ mileage
> > 8) Quiet: I have had enough of loud exhausts AND so has my WIFE (I was
> once banned from parking my bug in my apartment parking lot because the
> shortened stinger exhaust woke everyone up at 4:30 AM when I went to work
> and had to park on the street. I was told it could be heard for miles
> away…)
> > 9) Not do a lot of modifying to make it fit
> >
> > What I have wanted to achieve, I have done it.
> >
> > If anyone wants a ride to prove it, I am in NC waiting…
> >
> >
> > Robert
> >
> > FLAME SUIT ON AND CERAMIC COATED TO HANDLE THE HEAT...
> >
--
Dan
__________________________________________________
Dan Schmitz - Genentech Automation Engineering
djs@gene.com (650) 225-6119
__________________________________________________
"I'll so offend to make offense a skill
Redeeming time when men least think I will"
W. Shakespeare
Henry IV, Part 1
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